Can McCarthy survive as Speaker?

#576
#576
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I'm not pearl clutching. If you have friends that are undecided, that jump between the GOP and Dems, many voted for Bill but wouldn't vote for Hillary among people I know, ask them what they think of this or what they thought of the crap that took 15 elections to get McCarthy in the first place.

I'll bet they will say, "What is wrong with the Republicans that they can't find a leader?"

It's your answer that "This is good, though. It is good for government to work like this. This kind of thing happens all the time in government."

It doesn't. It's a lousy look. I urge you. If you know undecided people who might or might not vote GOP, ask them what this chaos does to their opinion of the party.
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No I position is to not jump to conclusions...and your right...outing a speaker doesnt happen because we haven't gotten to that point till now..not enough on either side had the nerve to do it. Pelosi should have been gotten rid of years ago but the uniparty would allow it...that's the issue...so now some stood up and said no more...and are looking for a solution....do you think the FFs would have voted out a leader who make back door deals with the crown???
 
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#577
#577
whodeycin85 said:
No I position is to not jump to conclusions...and your right...outing a speaker doesnt happen because we haven't gotten to that point till now..not enough on either side had the nerve to do it. Pelosi should have been gotten rid of years ago but the uniparty would allow it...that's the issue...so now some stood up and said no more...and are looking for a solution....do you think the FFs would have voted out a leader who make back door deals with the crown???
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That's not exactly how this went. Whether I like them or not or agree with them or not, the Dems are Americans and a valid party about half the voting population picked in the last election. They aren't "The Crown" which was a different country.

In that, in a very closely divided representative government, compromise is essential. If you elect a leader, expect them to make compromises because otherwise in a government as closely divided as our Congress, nothing will occur. Our govt would be shut down, currently, without McCarthy cutting the deal that got him fired.

It was a lose-lose situation. If the GOP didn't compromise, we get blamed for another government shutdown. No matter how you or I feel about that, it hasn't done well for us in elections after shutdowns. When McCarthy did compromise, he got fired and now we can't seem to elect another Speaker. I'm betting that doesn't play well in the next election cycle either.

Maybe McCarthy DID suck as a Speaker but did those members who voted to oust him REALLY think he would let the govt shutdown again? Is that REALLY what they think would've been best for America? Is this chaos over electing a Speaker REALLY what they think is best for America?

I'm just trying to see what the endgame is here and how it makes my family's life better.
 
#578
#578
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Agreed. But the point is that Federal money is allocated by Federal representatives. WAY WAY WAY WAY too much money goes to DC then comes back when it should be collected and used at a more local level. We probably agree there.

How does that change? We need to elect Federal representatives to do that. Chances are those like minded candidates aren't going to be Dems.

All I've said from the start is: Stop doing stupid crap in DC to make it harder for us to elect good candidates. That's it. That's all I ask.

We're not really that far apart but you seem to just want to say "Poof....... this guy was a great Mayor in my town but now he's trash because we elected him to DC." It's an ongoing process but it's made harder if the folks in DC act like children.
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I agree that we are not far apart on some things. I have not seen good candidates in a while. And some that I thought were decent get up there and get corrupted, or are not strong enough to vote the way that the constituents want them to.

A lot of the time I just wish some would get up there and be a wall and block anything that they can to slow down the decline.

I would say out of the 500 plus congressional seats I really only think there are only 5-10 that are decent. 10 may be a stretch.
 
#579
#579
SGMVols said:
I just don’t see how this standoff ends without a deal with the Democrats being made. Too many people on both the moderate and far-right sides of the GOP are dug in with their guy.

Probably going to have to put up a moderate like Fred Upton and offer concessions to get D votes, such as equal sharing of committee power, cancellation of the impeachment inquiry, etc.

It just isn’t feasible to leave the House shut down for weeks or even months.
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What will happen is republicans will demand these “centrist Dems” to show good faith. The likes of Josh Gottheimer is somehow a centrist moderate yet he doesn’t have stones to call out a handful of his fellow members for clear anti semitism and terrorist sympathizing…. R’s are supposed to trust these centrists when they can’t even take a softball issue and hit a home run out of the park with literally the easiest answer.

Sadly, the Problem Solver’s Caucus don’t want to solve actual problems
 
#580
#580
Jxn Vol said:
I agree that we are not far apart on some things. I have not seen good candidates in a while. And some that I thought were decent get up there and get corrupted, or are not strong enough to vote the way that the constituents want them to.

A lot of the time I just wish some would get up there and be a wall and block anything that they can to slow down the decline.

I would say out of the 500 plus congressional seats I really only think there are only 5-10 that are decent. 10 may be a stretch.
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Agreed. But if you're going to get fired every time you compromise, we're selecting for only the most inflexible candidates because no one else will take the job.

Government is actually compromise. If the GOP is going to become the "our way or we shut everything down" party, we aren't going to prosper as a party.

I don't WANT to get everything I want at the expense of anyone else having a voice. I'm married. I have a good wife. We disagree. We listen. We give and take. We pray and we work out sometimes hard compromises.

Like the Dems or dislike them, people WILL vote for them rather than GOP candidates. I'd prefer that to happen less, not more, because in general the GOP fields somewhat better candidates IMO.
 
#582
#582
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Agreed. But if you're going to get fired every time you compromise, we're selecting for only the most inflexible candidates because no one else will take the job.

Government is actually compromise. If the GOP is going to become the "our way or we shut everything down" party, we aren't going to prosper as a party.

I don't WANT to get everything I want at the expense of anyone else having a voice. I'm married. I have a good wife. We disagree. We listen. We give and take. We pray and we work out sometimes hard compromises.

Like the Dems or dislike them, people WILL vote for them rather than GOP candidates. I'd prefer that to happen less, not more, because in general the GOP fields somewhat better candidates IMO.
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It’s not a compromise when only 1 side moves. We have compromised our way so far from Constitutional principles that we are closer to communism.

It’s like getting hit by a small car going 100mph or by a rig going 40mph. Both instances you are dead.

Sadly we won’t be able to vote our way out of this without somewhat of a revolution I mentioned earlier.

And I can’t do the GOP vs Dem thing. They are both on the same team. Once your eyes open to that fact it all makes more sense.
 
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#583
#583
Jxn Vol said:
It’s not a compromise when only 1 side moves. We have compromised our way so far from Constitutional principles that we are closer to communism.

It’s like getting hit by a small car going 100mph or by a rig going 40mph. Both instances you are dead.

Sadly we won’t be able to vote our way out of this without somewhat of a revolution I mentioned earlier.

And I can’t do the GOP vs Dem thing. They are both on the same team. Once your eyes open to that fact it all makes more sense.
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The GOP and Dems don't raise funds for each other and even a "moderate" Dem isn't a "moderate" GOP at the core, but I'll agree to disagree.

As for that revolution, perhaps it's knowing I'll not have years and years to see that happen so I'm more practical that ANYTHING I can do to slow the slide is what I should do. I dislike seeing Dems get seats that a GOP candidate could get because I know Dem agenda will not help my kids and grands. The GOP candidate might not either but there's some chance there.
 
#584
#584
#585
#585
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
The GOP and Dems don't raise funds for each other and even a "moderate" Dem isn't a "moderate" GOP at the core, but I'll agree to disagree.

As for that revolution, perhaps it's knowing I'll not have years and years to see that happen so I'm more practical that ANYTHING I can do to slow the slide is what I should do. I dislike seeing Dems get seats that a GOP candidate could get because I know Dem agenda will not help my kids and grands. The GOP candidate might not either but there's some chance there.
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Nah. It’s them versus us. Only 5-10 care about us and are on our side.
 
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#587
#587
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
You don't actually believe the American experiment. That's fine. No reason for you to vote anymore in non-local elections. Your choice.
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you keep bringing up the American experiment...we are closer to socialism then to what the FFs envisioned...I'd you house is falling down due to rotting in the core. Do you leave it up and try and build more or do you RIP it down as far as you can then rebuild??? We have to get rid of the rot and McCarthy was a start
 
#588
#588
I'm torn. On the one hand Jordan is just a flat out jerk. The no jacket, I work hard thing, is so played. On the other hand, it's a certainty he will drive the GOP bus the rest of the way off the cliff.

So, I don't know.
 
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#590
#590
whodeycin85 said:
you keep bringing up the American experiment...we are closer to socialism then to what the FFs envisioned...I'd you house is falling down due to rotting in the core. Do you leave it up and try and build more or do you RIP it down as far as you can then rebuild??? We have to get rid of the rot and McCarthy was a start
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And again, how do you rip it down if you believe it's all one big party in DC and they're against you?

If you're an actual revolutionary who supports the overthrow of the Constitution, just own it.

Otherwise, you're going to have to win some elections to get this "tear it down" to work. Even then, you guys seem to think DC corrupts everyone so that won't work.

As I said, you don't appear to believe in how America was designed to work.
 
#591
#591
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
And again, how do you rip it down if you believe it's all one big party in DC and they're against you?

If you're an actual revolutionary who supports the overthrow of the Constitution, just own it.

Otherwise, you're going to have win some elections to get this "tear it down" to work Even then, you guys seem to think DC corrupts everyone so that won't work.

As I said, you don't appear to believe in how America was designed to work.
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Again you seem to think American was designed like we have now which is closer to socialism then a republic.....
I wanna get back to the constitution....did the GOP go against the constitution in outing the speaker...Nope..in fact they used it as intended...now as for repairing it you have to start with strong people standing up for thier beliefs....those few did that...GOP has for years has been the biggest person and have gotten nothing but walked over...btw. how has not having a speaker effected,your family?? Vs how has unchecked spending by omnibus Bill's effected them???
 
#592
#592
whodeycin85 said:
Again you seem to think American was designed like we have now which is closer to socialism then a republic.....
I wanna get back to the constitution....did the GOP go against the constitution in outing the speaker...Nope..in fact they used it as intended...now as for repairing it you have to start with strong people standing up for thier beliefs....those few did that...GOP has for years has been the biggest person and have gotten nothing but walked over...btw. how has not having a speaker effected,your family?? Vs how has unchecked spending by omnibus Bill's effected them???
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And I'm asking you, How do you propose we get back to the Constitution unless we win elections?

All I hear from you guys is: DC is against us. DC corrupts everyone or almost everyone who goes there.

If you back folks who shut down the govt, expect that a lot of Americans won't agree that's the best course and won't support your party.

That's not winning elections, not helping your family, and not getting us any closer to the Constitution.
 
#594
#594
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
And I'm asking you, How do you propose we get back to the Constitution unless we win elections?

All I hear from you guys is: DC is against us. DC corrupts everyone or almost everyone who goes there.

If you back folks who shut down the govt, expect that a lot of Americans won't agree that's the best course and won't support your party.

That's not winning elections, not helping your family, and not getting us any closer to the Constitution.
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We will have to agree to disagree..I think we are at the breaking point of elections working...I think in 20 years without a drastic change the US will need in full revolution or more likely taken over by a foreign government
 
#595
#595
whodeycin85 said:
We will have to agree to disagree..I think we are at the breaking point of elections working...I think in 20 years without a drastic change the US will need in full revolution or more likely taken over by a foreign government
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As I said, you don't actually believe in how America was designed to work. You think it USED to work but it doesn't anymore.

Essentially nothing has changed in the core design. It's still the same 3 branches, elected representation, etc. You just don't believe the vote can fix things. The Forefathers did.
 
#596
#596
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
As I said, you don't actually believe in how America was designed to work. You think it USED to work but it doesn't anymore.

Essentially nothing has changed in the core design. It's still the same 3 branches, elected representation, etc. You just don't believe the vote can fix things. The Forefathers did.
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Somehow, someway, so many terrible people have somehow found a way to get themselves elected. And it's on both sides. Imo that is essentially what is wrong. We have people who don't actually care about improving the country and helping people, they just want to stick it to the other side. At some point it has just became all about "winning." And if it comes at the expense of the American people, so be it
 
#600
#600
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
I get it and agree with much of that but "bad" GOP election wins are better than Dem wins.

The chaos is not good for future control of the House or Senate or winning the WH. If we want to strip government back to something Constitutional, we need to win elections. To win elections we need to look like adults who can work together.

It's pretty simple to me. Don't get the majority in the House (a good start to cutting down government) then be unable to choose a Speaker and use the House effectively. It's a terrible look to voters.
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We’re not going back to “the Constitution”. Those days are over. The seeds have been planted for 163 years and are bearing fruit.
 
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