Cbj

[tim]

Back to excusing the coaches from responsibility again? The players did not lose the Vandy game.

Did the coaches win the S Car game?

 

[volnashun]

Spring will be very interesting / exciting .... A new season of coaches coaching guys who have already been through a season of new coaching.

 

[UTRavens]

Well, its surely can't be coaching and game planning. Its that our 4* players are not really 4* players

Are you being sarcastic? Because what you just said is completely true. A near majority of our 4* recruits in recent years were gone, and many others simply weren't very good. We were darn near the least talented team in the SEC.

 

[UTRavens]

Coaches who have the ability and who are going to make it usually show tangible improvement right away.

Unless the talent level dramatically drops off from the previous year, which is exactly what happened between 2012 and 2013.

 

[oregonvol]

Are you being sarcastic? Because what you just said is completely true. A near majority of our 4* recruits in recent years were gone, and many others simply weren't very good. We were darn near the least talented team in the SEC.

We started like 15 4 stars against Vanderbilt. Can you tell me how many 4 stars they started?

 

[UTRavens]

We started like 15 4 stars against Vanderbilt. Can you tell me how many 4 stars they started?

What did I just say? Great, so they were considered 4*s at the time they were recruited. Let's list those 15 starters and see how their careers have actually turned out.

 

[rocktopper16]

If Worley wouldn't have got injured we wouldn't be having this argument. I believe we would have made a bowl game & beat Vandy.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

And CBJ lost 4 games by 28+ points for the first time in over 50 years. He buddied up with Dooley to lose to Vandy twice in a row for the first time in more than a generation. He had the second worst scoring D in more than 50 years. Oregon scored the most points UT has ever allowed.

If you want to discuss "history", Jones reached some historic lows for the program. I don't think that's where you want to go.

Name a schedule in the last 50 years that compares to the one we just played.

So CBJ had to play the toughest schedule in over 120 years with an unproven QB, WRs and other young players. So please continue to belittle those HUGE facts as is they mean nothing. You mention the Vandy loss and conveniently dismiss the SC win. You truly are a pathetic excuse for a Vol fan.

Why don't you go root for Vandy or Bama? It's apparent that you dislike our coaches and team in general.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Did the coaches win the S Car game?

The SC win doesn't matter to him. The only things that matter are the blowout losses and the Vandy game.

 

[MustafaRasta]

Name a schedule in the last 50 years that compares to the one we just played.

So CBJ had to play the toughest schedule in over 120 years with an unproven QB, WRs and other young players. So please continue to belittle those HUGE facts as is they mean nothing. You mention the Vandy loss and conveniently dismiss the SC win. You truly are a pathetic excuse for a Vol fan.

Why don't you go root for Vandy or Bama? It's apparent that you dislike our coaches and team in general.

5 of the final AP top 10. Almost half our schedule was against top 10 teams.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

5 of the final AP top 10. Almost half our schedule was against top 10 teams.

Agree. But for some reason some on VN just don't accept it.

 

[MustafaRasta]

Agree. But for some reason some on VN just don't accept it.

Most people are embarrassed about how much leniency they gave CDD so they over compensate by being negative in their analysis. A lot of other people are convinced they sound smart if they are constantly cynical.

That being said, this staff needs to prove and improve, the schedule will always be difficult at an elite school like UT although I do think this year was exceptionally difficult.

They got a road win, they beat a top 10 team but I think the Vandy game was a clunker. I suspect Dobbs had an injured hand and thigh in that game though.

Anyway, I's say a competitive 7-5 followed by a 9-10 win season is reasonable. If he can flirt with double digits by year 3 there is no reason to believe he wont keep it that way.

Nine wins should be considered a "down year" at Tennessee. There is merit to having patience though despite everyone's disappointment.

 

[Slingshot]

He is the coach of your favorite college football team. Why don't we wish him the best moving forward.

I for one hope he is successful because that means our UT VOLS will be winning football games.

Why is it that sports analysts like Herbstreit, Dilfer, (I've heard other espn guys say encouraging things about Butch I just don't know their names) and former players like Peyton Manning, Eric Berry, guys like that and former coaches like Johnny Majors, Phillip Fulmer ya know, guys like that can get behind Butch and have made comments that he is turning the program around and that TN is coming back under the new coaching staff but some volnation fans don't respect their opinions?

Wow that was my best run on sentence ever.

You know football is their day job. They might know what they are talking about.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

Absolutely blindly following someone without questioning anything they do does not make you a "real" fan; it makes you a great candidate to becoming a cult member.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Did the coaches win the S Car game?

They came with the game plan and put the players in a position to win the game. The players executed the plan and we won.

 

[Spartacavolus]

Most people are embarrassed about how much leniency they gave CDD so they over compensate by being negative in their analysis. A lot of other people are convinced they sound smart if they are constantly cynical.

That being said, this staff needs to prove and improve, the schedule will always be difficult at an elite school like UT although I do think this year was exceptionally difficult.

They got a road win, they beat a top 10 team but I think the Vandy game was a clunker. I suspect Dobbs had an injured hand and thigh in that game though.

Anyway, I's say a competitive 7-5 followed by a 9-10 win season is reasonable. If he can flirt with double digits by year 3 there is no reason to believe he wont keep it that way.

Nine wins should be considered a "down year" at Tennessee. There is merit to having patience though despite everyone's disappointment.

-hand and knee/thigh on his right leg. He couldn't hold onto the ball or push off well. Bad combo.

 

[tm3]

Absolutely blindly following someone without questioning anything they do does not make you a "real" fan; it makes you a great candidate to becoming a cult member.

Correct

And questioning or even, gasp, sometimes doubting a coach or coaching staff's ability does not mean that you do not support them.

 

[Slingshot]

Absolutely blindly following someone without questioning anything they do does not make you a "real" fan; it makes you a great candidate to becoming a cult member.

Did I say I was blindly following anyone?

I said that there are a lot of guys out there with much more football knowledge than me that have more faith in Butch than a lot of fans on here that are just Monday morning quaterbacks with no experience in the game other than watching from the stands or from their couch on Saturdays.

Your opinions way very little in the grand scheme of things anyway.

You guys are all fans like me and you want UT to be dominant again like me. I guess there is a lot of "I told ya so" fans on here.

If you go criticize Butch and he doesn't work out you can all say well I told you all he was a bad coach.

But if he is successful no one will say anything because everyone will just be happy we are winning.

I get it. It's a safe bet. Cowardly but safe.

 

[sjt18]

Did the coaches win the S Car game?

I would say that and UGA were very good jobs by the staff. I personally think that UGA was an even better job by them though the fumble cost them in the end.

The problem is you cannot survive in the SEC by having a well coached game in half or less of your contests. If you are outmanned, you have to go out there and find a way to keep yourself in it for as long as you can. You have to find ways to put Sun Belt Conf teams away rather than needing an end zone pick late in the game to preserve a win.

At a bare minimum, the efforts we saw from the coaches were very, very inconsistent. That is not something that bodes well for them going forward.

 

[sjt18]

Did I say I was blindly following anyone?

I said that there are a lot of guys out there with much more football knowledge than me that have more faith in Butch than a lot of fans on here that are just Monday morning quaterbacks with no experience in the game other than watching from the stands or from their couch on Saturdays.

Your opinions way very little in the grand scheme of things anyway.

You guys are all fans like me and you want UT to be dominant again like me. I guess there is a lot of "I told ya so" fans on here.

If you go criticize Butch and he doesn't work out you can all say well I told you all he was a bad coach.

But if he is successful no one will say anything because everyone will just be happy we are winning.

I get it. It's a safe bet. Cowardly but safe.

There's nothing cowardly about honest criticism and nothing noble about avoiding the reality of someone's shortcomings because it makes you feel uncomfortable.

Of course we want Jones to succeed... that does not mean we have to ignore the fact that there is no measure by which you can call his first season a success. That's not to say no good things happened. Some did. UGA, USCe, Neal's year,... but the majority of results were not good and it was not good overall.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Did I say I was blindly following anyone?

I said that there are a lot of guys out there with much more football knowledge than me that have more faith in Butch than a lot of fans on here that are just Monday morning quaterbacks with no experience in the game other than watching from the stands or from their couch on Saturdays.

Your opinions way very little in the grand scheme of things anyway.

You guys are all fans like me and you want UT to be dominant again like me. I guess there is a lot of "I told ya so" fans on here.

If you go criticize Butch and he doesn't work out you can all say well I told you all he was a bad coach.

But if he is successful no one will say anything because everyone will just be happy we are winning.

I get it. It's a safe bet. Cowardly but safe.

It's no more "cowardly" than hiding behind the true fan card and blindly supporting whatever result happens with the rest of the herd.

If he is successful, most of the ones on here criticizing the loudest will be the first to heap praise upon him because they want positive results. They know what this program is capable of instead of buying into the coach speak and the mealy mouthed excuses that have come out of this program for a decade or more now.

 

[KBVol]

Correct

And questioning or even, gasp, sometimes doubting a coach or coaching staff's ability does not mean that you do not support them.

There are plenty of guys who offer legit, pertinent criticism of Butch. Then, there are a subset of guys who go out of their way to insert their criticism of Butch no matter the subject of the thread.

Couple of examples...
In the "South Carolina looks like a good win" thread, a handful of guys couldn't let that stand.... had to go after that idea with "but he sucked vs Vandy so that win means little or nothing" argument

When many pointed out that Vandy's success was in large part due to their by far easiest SEC schedule in THREADS ABOUT JAMES FRANKLIN (not a Franklin vs Butch thread), the first thing they did was immediately attack and try to pick apart Jones track record by comparison.

If you want to criticize Jones have at it. Start thread after thread ABOUT JONES and his bad track record, his awful loss vs Vandy, vs Oregon, vs Mizzou, vs Auburn. Got no problem with it. Just don't get why a few guys on here can't wait to run down and insert Jones in threads which have nothing to do with him.

I know this for a fact. If Jones had gone 9-4 this year vs the exact same schedule that Franklin had, they'd still be picking it apart, discrediting every win....

"Wins vs APSU, UMass, UAB, & Wake Forest? Are you kidding? They all suck, those are bad wins, should've blown all those guys out. Butch barely beat UMass and Wake Forest. If North doesn't make that catch on 4th and 12 in the last 2 minutes of that game with 2 guys draped all over him we freakin lose to a 4 win ACC team at home! Unacceptable!"

"He beat the worst Florida team in 35 years! They won 4 games and didn't have their starting QB. Plus, Florida gave UT all those turnovers deep in their own territory. I mean I'm glad we finally beat Florida, but this win was a little hollow, especially since they had all those starters out. Does anybody think Jones would've beaten a healthy Florida that went 11-2 last year?"

"Gotta hand it to Jones, they were able to close out that game vs Georgia. We'll take the win. But come on, they were decimated with injuries, their best pass rusher got wrongly tossed from the game and even though we had more yards than Georgia they were in control of the game throughout. If their backup freshman running back hadnt fumbled the ball deep in their own territory and their punter doesn't drop that snap at the 10 yard line, we don't win that game"

"Glad we won that bowl game, but jones got way too conservative after getting that big lead and nearly gagged up a 24 point lead to a pretty average Big 12 school. He's gotta get better at managing games when he's got a lead. I don't know, defense looked horrible letting Houston come back from down 24 pts. We gave up 300 yds in the 3rd quarter alone! 300! That's worse that Sunseri. So much for the "best staff in America" huh?"

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

Did I say I was blindly following anyone?

I said that there are a lot of guys out there with much more football knowledge than me that have more faith in Butch than a lot of fans on here that are just Monday morning quaterbacks with no experience in the game other than watching from the stands or from their couch on Saturdays.

Your opinions way very little in the grand scheme of things anyway.

You guys are all fans like me and you want UT to be dominant again like me. I guess there is a lot of "I told ya so" fans on here.

If you go criticize Butch and he doesn't work out you can all say well I told you all he was a bad coach.

But if he is successful no one will say anything because everyone will just be happy we are winning.

I get it. It's a safe bet. Cowardly but safe.

Nowhere in my post did I single you out.
Either you are full of yourself or the shoe fits.

Now, good day to you.

 

[tm3]

i don't go out of my way to pee in anyone's cheerios. most here seem to want to believe that anyone willing to put on the orange tie is infallible, and OK with me if they want to bask in that.

there also needs to be an avenue for discussing some of the issues that most would prefer to ignore.

 

[oregonvol]

There are plenty of guys who offer legit, pertinent criticism of Butch. Then, there are a subset of guys who go out of their way to insert their criticism of Butch no matter the subject of the thread.

Couple of examples...
In the "South Carolina looks like a good win" thread, a handful of guys couldn't let that stand.... had to go after that idea with "but he sucked vs Vandy so that win means little or nothing" argument

When many pointed out that Vandy's success was in large part due to their by far easiest SEC schedule in THREADS ABOUT JAMES FRANKLIN (not a Franklin vs Butch thread), the first thing they did was immediately attack and try to pick apart Jones track record by comparison.

If you want to criticize Jones have at it. Start thread after thread ABOUT JONES and his bad track record, his awful loss vs Vandy, vs Oregon, vs Mizzou, vs Auburn. Got no problem with it. Just don't get why a few guys on here can't wait to run down and insert Jones in threads which have nothing to do with him.

I know this for a fact. If Jones had gone 9-4 this year vs the exact same schedule that Franklin had, they'd still be picking it apart, discrediting every win....

"Wins vs APSU, UMass, UAB, & Wake Forest? Are you kidding? They all suck, those are bad wins, should've blown all those guys out. Butch barely beat UMass and Wake Forest. If North doesn't make that catch on 4th and 12 in the last 2 minutes of that game with 2 guys draped all over him we freakin lose to a 4 win ACC team at home! Unacceptable!"

"He beat the worst Florida team in 35 years! They won 4 games and didn't have their starting QB. Plus, Florida gave UT all those turnovers deep in their own territory. I mean I'm glad we finally beat Florida, but this win was a little hollow, especially since they had all those starters out. Does anybody think Jones would've beaten a healthy Florida that went 11-2 last year?"

"Gotta hand it to Jones, they were able to close out that game vs Georgia. We'll take the win. But come on, they were decimated with injuries, their best pass rusher got wrongly tossed from the game and even though we had more yards than Georgia they were in control of the game throughout. If their backup freshman running back hadnt fumbled the ball deep in their own territory and their punter doesn't drop that snap at the 10 yard line, we don't win that game"

"Glad we won that bowl game, but jones got way too conservative after getting that big lead and nearly gagged up a 24 point lead to a pretty average Big 12 school. He's gotta get better at managing games when he's got a lead. I don't know, defense looked horrible letting Houston come back from down 24 pts. We gave up 300 yds in the 3rd quarter alone! 300! That's worse that Sunseri. So much for the "best staff in America" huh?"

Yeah, you saw all the criticism here after the South Carolina game...wait, you mean people weren't criticizing Jones after the South Carolina game? Well, that can't be true, since we all know everyone who criticizes the program or coaches is simply addicted to negativity. It couldn't have anything to do with the unprecedented levels of failure the program has achieved. It couldn't have anything to do with a 5-7 season. No, fans of most major programs are cool with 4 straight losing seasons. They're usually cool with their new coach duplicating the worst record of the worst coach they've ever had.

There's no reason for criticism in every thread, guys. That would be like putting excuses in every thread.

Of course, I guess if you must criticize, then you should only do so in a thread you start specifically for it. And we all know those threads won't be trolled by numerous coach-worshipper posters with nothing to add but insults. Cool idea.