Cbj

#76
#76
sjt18 said:
1) Jones didn't do an excellent job. A 5-7 record is not "excellent". It is subpar regardless of what else you do... which would include signing a class highly rated by recruiting websites. Jones has said himself that losing was unacceptable and that the record was unacceptable. After Oregon, he said losses like that one were unacceptable. So if you want to argue with someone... argue with Jones this time. I'm simply agreeing with him.

2) Jones said he considers UT a destination job. Unlike so many who purpose to "defend" him from criticism... I actually believe him when he says stuff. I suspect that if he can coach well enough to keep the job then he'll be at UT for a long time.

3) In spite of some honest criticism, I and folks like me are pulling for Jones just as much or more than is supposed defenders. I think in many ways he is the ideal coach for UT. His personality fits. His respect for the program, appreciation for the fans, love of the game, and personal stability ALL fit UT and the unique opportunity.

He is not perfect nor did he do an "excellent" job in his first year. But he does have some excellent traits and hopefully a great capacity for learning from mistakes. The thing I am most uncomfortable with him on is his staff selection. If he isn't great at that also... I hope he is great at realizing and dealing with coaches who aren't right for the job.
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sjt, once again you make an excellent post.
Like it or not, sjt gets it.
 
#78
#78
cgbtn said:
Coach Doug Matthews was on 104.5 this morning talking about expectations for coaches filling vacancies. He pointed out that Butch will be play 8 teams that were in bowls this year. All of those teams have programs that are pretty well built. I fear much of the love on here may turn to hate next year, if people can't realize what a hill Butch has to climb.
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Do you consider Tennessee to be an elite program? If you do, you should expect excellence. There is no doubt that there is much overcoming to do but if this is the right staff then they should be able to do it. That means consistent improvement and playing above the talent level. Did we really see that this season? Yes and no. Playing Georgia the way they did and beating SC is a yes. The Vandy game negates the positives at least for me. People need to raise their expectations for this staff and want the absolute best for the program. Wanting but to be Saban won't necessarily make him Saban.
 
#79
#79
My only issue with Sjt's posts is that you just seem to not give him any leeway our slack for it being his first year. Most first years are tough. Putting in a new system and trying to get players that fit it is difficult. We were doing well up until we lost Worley. With him I have no doubt that we beat Vandy.

I wanted a 6-6 record last year but having to start a true freshman makes that difficult.

Basically I'm withholding critical judgement until next year and I think a 7-6 record with a bowl win would be a great job. Honestly getting to a bowl would make me content.

People expecting some miracle coach to come in and turn is around immediately are ridiculous.
 
#80
#80
NashVOL93 said:
1. I, too, have wondered at times what might happen if the Michigan or Michigan State jobs ever came open. I know Jones was always a big NFL fan (Tampa Bay) as a kid, but you have to figure he probably rooted for one of them. State would likely be a lateral move at best, but Michigan, in the hands of the right man, is one of the biggest of big-boy jobs. If I ever get the chance, I'm going to ask him which one he cheered for.
2. Did Jones' Tennessee squad go 5-7 this year? Yes. Was I happy with it? Hell no. That being said, some of you guys are way out of touch with reality. You hire a coach based on his previous track record, not what you think he might do in the first year. It's called a body of work. Hart didn't hire Jones because he went 4-8 his first year at Cincy, he hired him because he turned that 4-8 unit into a team that won 10 games two years in a row. He's gonna need more than one year before the mouth breathers start calling for his head. Just look at his past record. The proof is there. Even Spurrier said so.
3. Previous case in point: Mike B's offense, with the exception of some incredibly clutch plays by Marquez North and Coach G's total reinvention of Raijon Neal, was the worst unit on Tennessee's team this year. Even the defense was better. Yet Bajakian and Azzanni were both mentioned for head coaching jobs this offseason. After a 5-7 season! Again, it's called a body of work.
4. Jones - 1. Spurrier - 0. This should speak for itself.
Click to expand...
Franklin 1 Jones 0.
What does that say?
 
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#81
#81
wolfej said:
My only issue with Sjt's posts is that you just seem to not give him any leeway our slack for it being his first year. Most first years are tough. Putting in a new system and trying to get players that fit it is difficult. We were doing well up until we lost Worley. With him I have no doubt that we beat Vandy.

I wanted a 6-6 record last year but having to start a true freshman makes that difficult.

Basically I'm withholding critical judgement until next year and I think a 7-6 record with a bowl win would be a great job. Honestly getting to a bowl would make me content.

People expecting some miracle coach to come in and turn is around immediately are ridiculous.
Click to expand...

It was not ridiculous to expect a .500 record and a bowl game. It was not ridiculous to expect a single game improvement over the worst record of the worst coach to coach here in 100 years. And hardly anyone expected much more than that.
 
#82
#82
sjt18 said:
So the blindly optimistic are "realistic" and honest critics are not?

BTW, many of those of us who are critical like him and want him to succeed. We're just not willing to call the stuff you pump out of a portajon ice cream.
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What is so funny to me is the things we say pretty much echoes the things Butch says himself.
Irony.
 
#85
#85
Like CBJ, but with the talent coming in, we should be able to win 6-8 games and go to a bowl. Don't see any other University trying to hire him at this point. After he gets winning, then I can see other's showing interest.
 
#86
#86
So one of the things I am reading here is Jones must win a bowl game in 2014 or he is going to be on the hot seat? Good Lord. Does nobody know what rebuilding means anymore?
 
#88
#88
BigOrangeTrain said:
So one of the things I am reading here is Jones must win a bowl game in 2014 or he is going to be on the hot seat? Good Lord. Does nobody know what rebuilding means anymore?
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For me it is make it to a bowl.
No doubt, the schedule is tough but if this staff is worth a damn, they can get six wins next year.
Do you disagree?
 
#89
#89
BigOrangeTrain said:
So one of the things I am reading here is Jones must win a bowl game in 2014 or he is going to be on the hot seat? Good Lord. Does nobody know what rebuilding means anymore?
Click to expand...

How many coaches have started out with two straight losing seasons in the SEC in the past 25 years and gone on to success at their school? I can't think of many at the moment and it's certainly not the norm. Usually, you start off with 2 losing seasons at any major program, you're not going to make it in the long run.
 
#92
#92
Tennessee had to pillow fight Colorado and Purdue for CBJ...

I think we will be okay unless another mediocre university wants to drive up the price.
 
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#94
#94
BigOrangeTrain said:
So one of the things I am reading here is Jones must win a bowl game in 2014 or he is going to be on the hot seat? Good Lord. Does nobody know what rebuilding means anymore?
Click to expand...

I think so. Considering the talent we have coming in, and considering a lot of the teams we face are losing talent....then yes... no bowl game next season= hot seat.
 
#95
#95
BigOrangeTrain said:
So one of the things I am reading here is Jones must win a bowl game in 2014 or he is going to be on the hot seat? Good Lord. Does nobody know what rebuilding means anymore?
Click to expand...

Next year's schedule has 3 built in "should definitely wins" with 4 more "probable" to "toss up" games.

If this staff is worth a flip, they will get 6. If not, somebody's seat (perhaps assistant) will literally be on fire. I listed UGA & SC as 'L' because those were close games and we lose home field advantage. Florida sucks worse than we do right now, but they'll probably still win.

vs Utah State - ?
vs Arkansas State - W
@ Oklahoma - L
@ Georgia - L
vs Florida - ?
vs Chattanooga - W
@ Ole Miss - ?
vs Alabama - L
@ South Carolina - L
vs Kentucky - W
vs Missouri - L
@ Vanderbilt - ?
 
#98
#98
VolFan4Life87 said:
Next year's schedule has 3 built in "should definitely wins" with 4 more "probable" to "toss up" games.

If this staff is worth a flip, they will get 6. If not, somebody's seat (perhaps assistant) will literally be on fire. I listed UGA & SC as 'L' because those were close games and we lose home field advantage. Florida sucks worse than we do right now, but they'll probably still win.

vs Utah State - ?
vs Arkansas State - W
@ Oklahoma - L
@ Georgia - L
vs Florida - ?
vs Chattanooga - W
@ Ole Miss - ?
vs Alabama - L
@ South Carolina - L
vs Kentucky - W
vs Missouri - L
@ Vanderbilt - ?
Click to expand...

IMO, Ole Miss will be better than UF.
 
#99
#99
Doyle Hargraves said:
Stupid post is stupid.
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Really? Any more stupid than all the people saying it would be good to lose him?

I'm ok with the reasonable posters who rightfully criticize the coach for the way the season ended up. But the ones who immediately respond with 'good riddance, take the whole staff with him' crap are idiots.
 
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#100
#100
wolfej said:
My only issue with Sjt's posts is that you just seem to not give him any leeway our slack for it being his first year. Most first years are tough. Putting in a new system and trying to get players that fit it is difficult. We were doing well up until we lost Worley. With him I have no doubt that we beat Vandy.

I wanted a 6-6 record last year but having to start a true freshman makes that difficult.

Basically I'm withholding critical judgement until next year and I think a 7-6 record with a bowl win would be a great job. Honestly getting to a bowl would make me content.

People expecting some miracle coach to come in and turn is around immediately are ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Ridiculous or not, Jones is 0-2 right now on things that really would have boosted his chances of making it past year 3 or 4.

It isn't fair so you can call it "ridiculous" if you want. But he needed a better recruiting class than he got in '13. He needed a top shelf RB and didn't get it. Again, not fair. Dooley set him up to fail. But "fair" doesn't pay the light bill. He has to win regardless. A great '13 class would have helped tremendously.

Second, he needed to prove he was an SEC level coach with an SEC level staff this season. On the whole, they didn't do that. Seven would have been a statement. Six would have gotten a pass. Five was underachievement. A six or 7 win season could be spun to gain credibility. You just can't do that with 7 losses and some historically bad statistical performances.

There is no leeway to give. Coaches who survive have some success early. Sometimes it is nothing more than one win over the previous year. Sometimes it is better than that. Starting out by posting the same kind of season both statistically and in wins as the guy who just got fired... simply does not scream "I'm the guy to save the program".

It isn't really true that most first years are tough. Spurrier improved UF and USCe in his first year. Richt did. Saban improved Bama by one win and LSU by more than that. Sumlin doubled the win total. I think Freeze did as well. Mullin made an immediate impact. Meyer did. Malzahn did as well. Franklin did.

If you look at the guys who either tread water or win less... it isn't good... Dooley, Muschamp, Croom, Sherman, Zook,...
 
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