Coach Kellie Harper fired

[BruisedOrange]

I with this thread would go away too

Yeah, how did my keyboard develop a lisp?

Gonna have to pull up some John Wayne movies and let 'em run on the screen overnight.

 

[BruisedOrange]

except you bumped it back up with your Marty McFly moment.

Truth is, I think bumping this thread was important for us all to see how we initially reacted, through the lens of where we are now. Good BVS therapy.

(And probably good therapy for dealing with news headlines over the next 60 days. Don't react... just respond with things you control.)

 

[Go aeiou]

I'm 80 years old. I'm not a blue hair though, as I am totally bald. I try to avoid the blue haired people like the plague. I refuse to read AARP crap. When at a social gathering and the group I am with starts discussing their ailments or naming all the pills they take, I get up and find another group. Honor the past, but clinging to every old tradition and comparing every coach to past coaches is not productive. We do not live in the past. We live in the now,and, hopefully, most of us will live when a very bright Lady Vol future becomes our now.

What music do you listen to?

 

[Majors]

Truth is, I think bumping this thread was important for us all to see how we initially reacted, through the lens of where we are now. Good BVS therapy.

(And probably good good therapy for dealing with news headlines over the next 60 days. Don't react... just respond with things you control.)

Not all, some of us knew years ago. Almost as if we paid attention to the present day almanac of the trend. We didn’t need one from the future to predict the outcome.

 

[1reVOLver]

I with this thread would go away too

Thanks, Coach Bumper.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Thanks, Coach Bumper.

sure, resolver

 

[1morevol]

What music do you listen to?

What music do you listen to?

Classic rock, blues, a little classic country. A hard no to bluegrass, what poses as country today, no rap nor pop.

 

[BruisedOrange]

Not all, some of us knew years ago. Almost as if we paid attention to the present day almanac of the trend. We didn’t need one from the future to predict the outcome.

I was using the grace-filled, non-judgmental, let-bygones-be-bygones "we" and "all."
I dunno why it seemed like a good idea for this forum...

 

[Mafiaboss]

Welllllllllllllll Well
Maria is at it again.......................

What’s she done now?

 

[1reVOLver]

What’s she done now?

Earned a PhD (piled higher and deeper) in Crone-y-ism?

 

[madtownvol]

A very prescient movie predicted this thread!

 

[Lucy]

I was using the grace-filled, non-judgmental, let-bygones-be-bygones "we" and "all."
I dunno why it seemed like a good idea for this forum...

You will be happier if you block Majors. I promise!

 

[Majors]

You will be happier if you block Majors. I promise!

You old fussy britches, don’t be that way. You’re like the ex driving by to see if my car is there…or someone else’s maybe. How’d you know…unless you haven’t blocked me?

 

[StarRaider]

What music do you listen to?

Santana Soul Sacrifice

 

[DeerPark12]

Here's the facts, Caldwell's staff was given access to Volunteer Club money for recruiting, Harper's staff was not. Caldwell's standard NIL offer to top recruits is $250K, a car and a $20K travel allowance. Harper's best recruit, Rickea Jackson, didn't get half that. They lost numerous recruits due to lack of competitive NIL funds.

It's not fair to compare the results of recruiting between the coaching staffs for that reason alone.

Good for Coach Caldwell, but it's not right to slander Coach Harper and her staff, who did not have access to that kind of money.

While it is true that Spyre agreed to help with first year guarantees for basketball recruits, the number you're quoting there is not even close to the "standard NIL offer." You're off by six figures. I know in one case this cycle, the UT staff was outbid by a pretty substantial margin, but the player decided to come here anyway because the coaches worked to build a relationship while the school that thought itself to be the favorite just relied on the financial offer and assumed they were good. They're outworking everyone else on the trail and that's why they're getting results.

The current staff works on the recruiting trail with a relentless reputation. Several of my firm's WBB clients have told me that they saw Lazo and Tubner everywhere this summer and fall, to the point there is a joke in coaching circles that they've cloned themselves. Caldwell is building a reputation as a relationships coach.

I really liked members of the last staff. We did contract work for a couple of them. But they sold the Tennessee brand and history to kids and got completely outworked in every other area. They got way behind when Lacey was running the recruiting operation and never really recovered. Sam was out a lot, but she was the only one building relationships. Jon and Kellie went to a lot of tournaments, but... While it's certainly true they were behind in what they could offer in first-year NIL guarantees, they were outworked and the NIL stuff became an easy scapegoat.

I know you're good friends with a couple of my current clients, FormerLadyVolFan, so I'm trying to be respectful. But I couldn't let those numbers you threw out go.

 

[DeerPark12]

It is clear that she was. Rickea got a deal; Jewell got a deal. The narrative is that LVs NIL packages were far below that of other upper tier programs but not that she did not have some funds to work with. So, she could put together competitive packages for a few but not many.

This narrative has come from one specific poster, who seems to have been close to the program as a major donor but I don't believe that question of why Kellie was being underfunded (if that were indeed the case) has ever been answered.

Kellie was able to sell some financial backers on spending money and sponsorships on transfers and to retain players on the roster that were shopping themselves (or were being shopped by family/agents) to other schools.

The biggest supporters of the BHC wanted their money to go to proven players, rather than high school recruits. If the head coach had been more proactive with engaging the AD to help, the overall NIL shortcomings could have been addressed at least a year earlier. That said, the word that was out there in coaching circles was that they were getting outworked on the trail and there was concern among some of Spyre's backers in getting involved if that was the case.

 

[Ladyvols4ever!]

And if anybody else isn't sure of what Spyre is...

https://www.on3.com/nil/collectives/spyre-sports-group-2/

 

[Vunhopper]

Here's the facts, Caldwell's staff was given access to Volunteer Club money for recruiting, Harper's staff was not. Caldwell's standard NIL offer to top recruits is $250K, a car and a $20K travel allowance. Harper's best recruit, Rickea Jackson, didn't get half that. They lost numerous recruits due to lack of competitive NIL funds.

It's not fair to compare the results of recruiting between the coaching staffs for that reason alone.

Good for Coach Caldwell, but it's not right to slander Coach Harper and her staff, who did not have access to that kind of money.

Well, the Harper family should have donated their own money to the collective if they wanted better players. I'm tired of the millionaire coaches whine about NIL funds. She was one of the highest paid people in the state. She should have put her money where her mouth is.

 

[DeerPark12]

Well, the Harper family should have donated their own money to the collective if they wanted better players. I'm tired of the millionaire coaches whine about NIL funds. She was one of the highest paid people in the state. She should have put her money where her mouth is.

Coaches are not permitted to donate to NIL collectives. They can promote them, appear in ads and at fundraising events, but they cannot personally contribute.

 

[Vunhopper]

Coaches are not permitted to donate to NIL collectives. They can promote them, appear in ads and at fundraising events, but they cannot personally contribute.

Wow, isn't that convenient. They have no skin in the game. You know that loser coaches love that rule. That gives them an excuse. It's a total disgrace.

 

[Ladyvols4ever!]

While it is true that Spyre agreed to help with first year guarantees for basketball recruits, the number you're quoting there is not even close to the "standard NIL offer." You're off by six figures. I know in one case this cycle, the UT staff was outbid by a pretty substantial margin, but the player decided to come here anyway because the coaches worked to build a relationship while the school that thought itself to be the favorite just relied on the financial offer and assumed they were good. They're outworking everyone else on the trail and that's why they're getting results.

The current staff works on the recruiting trail with a relentless reputation. Several of my firm's WBB clients have told me that they saw Lazo and Tubner everywhere this summer and fall, to the point there is a joke in coaching circles that they've cloned themselves. Caldwell is building a reputation as a relationships coach.

I really liked members of the last staff. We did contract work for a couple of them. But they sold the Tennessee brand and history to kids and got completely outworked in every other area. They got way behind when Lacey was running the recruiting operation and never really recovered. Sam was out a lot, but she was the only one building relationships. Jon and Kellie went to a lot of tournaments, but... While it's certainly true they were behind in what they could offer in first-year NIL guarantees, they were outworked and the NIL stuff became an easy scapegoat.

I know you're good friends with a couple of my current clients, FormerLadyVolFan, so I'm trying to be respectful. But I couldn't let those numbers you threw out go.

I'm gonna guess it was Civil who decided to come here despite a higher NIL somewhere else?

Considering Prawl isn't eligible because she's Canadian, the Twins already had a deal with Puma, and because Hurst has a substantial tie to TN outside of money. Also, services stated how competitive and intense Civil's recruitment was.

 

[DeerPark12]

I'm gonna guess it was Civil who decided to come here despite a higher NIL somewhere else?

Considering Prawl isn't eligible because she's Canadian, the Twins already had a deal with Puma, and because Hurst has a substantial tie to TN outside of money. Also, services stated how competitive and intense Civil's recruitment was.

Doesn't matter who it is, I think they were outbid on a couple of other players as well.

Unrelated, the idea that Prawl isn't getting NIL money because she's Canadian is just false. While there are hurdles and complications to getting legal NIL money in the hands of students here on student visas, it's not impossible, as some seem to believe. She's going to make a lot of money.

 

[Ladyvols4ever!]

Doesn't matter who it is, I think they were outbid on a couple of other players as well.

Unrelated, the idea that Prawl isn't getting NIL money because she's Canadian is just false. While there are hurdles and complications to getting legal NIL money in the hands of students here on student visas, it's not impossible, as some seem to believe. She's going to make a lot of money.

Good to know regarding Prawl.

Even more reasons to love our 2025 class!!

 

[Vunhopper]

I'm sure there aren't too many of the overpaid crybabies otherwise known as coaches that are fighting for the right to donate to their own NIL fund. You never hear anything about that from them. I doubt there are any coaches filing lawsuits against the NCAA for not allowing them to donate to whomever they chose. You know if they did, the NCAA would back down and let them donate.

 

[Ladyvols4ever!]

Kellie was able to sell some financial backers on spending money and sponsorships on transfers and to retain players on the roster that were shopping themselves (or were being shopped by family/agents) to other schools.

The biggest supporters of the BHC wanted their money to go to proven players, rather than high school recruits. If the head coach had been more proactive with engaging the AD to help, the overall NIL shortcomings could have been addressed at least a year earlier. That said, the word that was out there in coaching circles was that they were getting outworked on the trail and there was concern among some of Spyre's backers in getting involved if that was the case.

Isn't the reason backers preferred "proven players" aka transfers rather than high schools recruits is because it's cheaper to make a deal with someone who's going to be there 1 or 2 years versus 4?

I too, think it's unfair to compare recruiting successes now compared to when Kellie was here. If the funds had been available they would have been more successful.