Coach Kellie Harper fired

[Vunhopper]

Isn't the reason backers preferred "proven players" aka transfers rather than high schools recruits because it's cheaper to make a deal with someone who's going to be there 1 or 2 years versus 4?

I too, think it's unfair to compare recruiting successes now compared to when Kellie was here. If the funds had been available they would have been more successful.

Excuses, excuses... Harper could have filed a lawsuit against the NCAA to allow her to donate her own money to the NIL. She had that right and did not do it. She wants poor people like me and you to buy her players for her while she rakes in millions of dollars.

 

[Ladyvols4ever!]

I'm sure there aren't too many of the overpaid crybabies otherwise known as coaches that are fighting for the right to donate to their own NIL fund. You never hear anything about that from them. I doubt there are any coaches filing lawsuits against the NCAA for not allowing them to donate to whomever they chose. You know if they did, the NCAA would back down and let them donate.

Don't you see how that could be considered unfair? Can u imagine Geno or Dawn donating vs. Coach Jones from Northeast Florida A & T?

 

[Vunhopper]

Don't you see how that could be considered unfair? Can u imagine Geno or Dawn donating vs. Coach Jones from Northeast Florida A & T?

Yes, it is unfair.... It's unfair that millionaires like Geno and Dawn expect poor people to buy her players while they earn millions. It's totally unfair. They should pitch in and help buy their own players.

 

[Ladyvols4ever!]

Yes, it is unfair.... It's unfair that millionaires like Geno and Dawn expect poor people to buy her players while they earn millions. It's totally unfair. They should pitch in and help buy their own players.

Maybe some do. I'm sure it's just a matter of giving some dough to a poor person and having that person donate the funds.

 

[1reVOLver]

Yes, it is unfair.... It's unfair that millionaires like Geno and Dawn expect poor people to buy her players while they earn millions. It's totally unfair. They should pitch in and help buy their own players.

Geno and Dawn expect? When did they start telling you about their expectations?
I suspect that all mentally competent coaches and ADs focus their fundraising efforts on the more well-to-do fans.

 

[Majors]

While it is true that Spyre agreed to help with first year guarantees for basketball recruits, the number you're quoting there is not even close to the "standard NIL offer." You're off by six figures. I know in one case this cycle, the UT staff was outbid by a pretty substantial margin, but the player decided to come here anyway because the coaches worked to build a relationship while the school that thought itself to be the favorite just relied on the financial offer and assumed they were good. They're outworking everyone else on the trail and that's why they're getting results.

The current staff works on the recruiting trail with a relentless reputation. Several of my firm's WBB clients have told me that they saw Lazo and Tubner everywhere this summer and fall, to the point there is a joke in coaching circles that they've cloned themselves. Caldwell is building a reputation as a relationships coach.

I really liked members of the last staff. We did contract work for a couple of them. But they sold the Tennessee brand and history to kids and got completely outworked in every other area. They got way behind when Lacey was running the recruiting operation and never really recovered. Sam was out a lot, but she was the only one building relationships. Jon and Kellie went to a lot of tournaments, but... While it's certainly true they were behind in what they could offer in first-year NIL guarantees, they were outworked and the NIL stuff became an easy scapegoat.

I know you're good friends with a couple of my current clients, FormerLadyVolFan, so I'm trying to be respectful. But I couldn't let those numbers you threw out go.

Yahtzee!

Those “what does Jon do” post really haunting right now.

Weird this was repeated over the years

they were outworked and the NIL stuff became an easy scapegoat.

Rough day for those who brag of blocking honest posters and Earl.

 

[Majors]

Yes, it is unfair.... It's unfair that millionaires like Geno and Dawn expect poor people to buy her players while they earn millions. It's totally unfair. They should pitch in and help buy their own players.

They pitch in with their resume and banners hanging. Sells itself

 

[DeerPark12]

Yahtzee!

Those “what does Jon do” post really haunting right now.

Weird this was repeated over the years

Rough day for those who brag of blocking honest posters and Earl.

I think Jon was and is an excellent Xs and Os coach. Excellent teacher of the game. Was almost certainly the best basketball voice in the conversation at practices and games. He got out on the recruiting trail and was great at the summer circuit stuff. I think he was less effective in the day-to-day keeping up with prospects when he wasn’t getting out to see them. So Sam took on more of that role.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying at all that the last staff was ineffective in recruiting. I would rate them as an above average recruiting staff. The NIL stuff didn’t help. I think a defeatist attitude seeped in a little bit with some staff members after the first or second time a recruit made it all about the money, as some do and will continue to, even with this staff. But the coaches that we have now are laughing the field, outside of two or three schools in the country. We are going to have to back up a Brinks truck to keep Lazo and Tubner in the coming years. Kim and her other coaches are great relationship builders, but those two are out there getting it started.

 

[Majors]

I think Jon was and is an excellent Xs and Os coach. Excellent teacher of the game. Was almost certainly the best basketball voice in the conversation at practices and games. He got out on the recruiting trail and was great at the summer circuit stuff. I think he was less effective in the day-to-day keeping up with prospects when he wasn’t getting out to see them. So Sam took on more of that role.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying at all that the last staff was ineffective in recruiting. I would rate them as an above average recruiting staff. The NIL stuff didn’t help. I think a defeatist attitude seeped in a little bit with some staff members after the first or second time a recruit made it all about the money, as some do and will continue to, even with this staff. But the coaches that we have now are laughing the field, outside of two or three schools in the country. We are going to have to back up a Brinks truck to keep Lazo and Tubner in the coming years. Kim and her other coaches are great relationship builders, but those two are out there getting it started.

Above average staff and the weakest link couldn’t connect by keeping up with the day to day prospects. If his name isn't Harper he’s not on the staff…that role is better suited for a Lazo/Tubner type coach who don’t come with what seems as a free pass.

I was told this staff as you reiterated is more genuine and after it on a personal level than the previous staff.

 

[FormerLadyVolFan]

If it's who I think it is, I got those numbers from one of your clients.

While it is true that Spyre agreed to help with first year guarantees for basketball recruits, the number you're quoting there is not even close to the "standard NIL offer." You're off by six figures. I know in one case this cycle, the UT staff was outbid by a pretty substantial margin, but the player decided to come here anyway because the coaches worked to build a relationship while the school that thought itself to be the favorite just relied on the financial offer and assumed they were good. They're outworking everyone else on the trail and that's why they're getting results.

The current staff works on the recruiting trail with a relentless reputation. Several of my firm's WBB clients have told me that they saw Lazo and Tubner everywhere this summer and fall, to the point there is a joke in coaching circles that they've cloned themselves. Caldwell is building a reputation as a relationships coach.

I really liked members of the last staff. We did contract work for a couple of them. But they sold the Tennessee brand and history to kids and got completely outworked in every other area. They got way behind when Lacey was running the recruiting operation and never really recovered. Sam was out a lot, but she was the only one building relationships. Jon and Kellie went to a lot of tournaments, but... While it's certainly true they were behind in what they could offer in first-year NIL guarantees, they were outworked and the NIL stuff became an easy scapegoat.

I know you're good friends with a couple of my current clients, FormerLadyVolFan, so I'm trying to be respectful. But I couldn't let those numbers you threw out go.

 

[DeerPark12]

Above average staff and the weakest link couldn’t connect by keeping up with the day to day prospects. If his name isn't Harper he’s not on the staff…that role is better suited for a Lazo/Tubner type coach who don’t come with what seems as a free pass.

I was told this staff as you reiterated is more genuine and after it on a personal level than the previous staff.

We’re going to have to agree to disagree on Jon, I don’t think he was the weak link of the staff by any definition, I think he was the basketball mind that did most of the teaching, and I think he is very good at that.

If he had not spent the last decade and a half supporting his wife’s career, I believe he would be a head coach somewhere presently. They made that decision as a family, and I’ll be interested to see what direction they take when and if they get back into college coaching.

 

[Majors]

We’re going to have to agree to disagree on Jon, I don’t think he was the weak link of the staff by any definition, I think he was the basketball mind that did most of the teaching, and I think he is very good at that.

If he had not spent the last decade and a half supporting his wife’s career, I believe he would be a head coach somewhere presently. They made that decision as a family, and I’ll be interested to see what direction they take when and if they get back into college coaching.

Possibly, but someone is always the weak link on a coaching staff. As it was said many times, he could have been an analyst and not a bench coach.

 

[37620VOL]

I wish death on this thread.



And this is not a bump because it was already at the top

 

[glv98]

f the head coach had been more proactive with engaging the AD to help, the overall NIL shortcomings could have been addressed at least a year earlier.

I'm curious if it's normal for the head coach to have to be proactive in seeking AD help. Isn't that his job? He was watching the situation but doing nothing bc she didn't ask nicely?

Sounds like the relationship btw head coach and AD was irretrievably broken for awhile before he fired her. Is it true they never talked at all last yr until he fired her? Sounds like an unhealthy working environment that could have never continued. I'm curious at what point he lost confidence in KJH, if he ever had any.

Also, the continued irrational Jon hate is just astounding. Even after being told Jon was indeed the strong link, it's immediately back to weak link posting. Fact free world. The problem many have w a husband taking second spot to a wife is quite revealing. I wonder if the Vandy and/or Alabama WBB coaching duos (or any of the several others across the country) run into the same prejudices?

 

[Mafiaboss]

Excuses, excuses... Harper could have filed a lawsuit against the NCAA to allow her to donate her own money to the NIL. She had that right and did not do it. She wants poor people like me and you to buy her players for her while she rakes in millions of dollars.

Huh?

 

[glv98]

Excuses, excuses... Harper could have filed a lawsuit against the NCAA to allow her to donate her own money to the NIL. She had that right and did not do it. She wants poor people like me and you to buy her players for her while she rakes in millions of dollars.

I'm assuming you have the same problem w Josh Heupel?

The amount of "poor people" spending the kids' college funds, or even next month's mortgag,e on NIL $$$$ and cray expensive tickets for Vol football is eye popping. It's up there w playing the lottery and sports gambling for terrible decisions people make that help keep them poor.

 

[Vunhopper]

Poor multi-millionaire Kellie Harper did not get enough money and that's why she lost her job. Boo-hoo, cry me a river. She is such a victim living in her big mansion.

 

[knoxvol52]

Poor multi-millionaire Kellie Harper did not get enough money and that's why she lost her job. Boo-hoo, cry me a river. She is such a victim living in her big mansion.

 

[GUNTERSVOL]

I'm curious if it's normal for the head coach to have to be proactive in seeking AD help. Isn't that his job? He was watching the situation but doing nothing bc she didn't ask nicely?

Sounds like the relationship btw head coach and AD was irretrievably broken for awhile before he fired her. Is it true they never talked at all last yr until he fired her? Sounds like an unhealthy working environment that could have never continued. I'm curious at what point he lost confidence in KJH, if he ever had any.

Also, the continued irrational Jon hate is just astounding. Even after being told Jon was indeed the strong link, it's immediately back to weak link posting. Fact free world. The problem many have w a husband taking second spot to a wife is quite revealing. I wonder if the Vandy and/or Alabama WBB coaching duos (or any of the several others across the country) run into the same prejudices?

You can bet on it We have not cornered the market on the arrogantly uninformed. According to the internet EVERY PROGRAM HAS THEM.

 

[1reVOLver]

Poor multi-millionaire Kellie Harper did not get enough money and that's why she lost her job. Boo-hoo, cry me a river. She is such a victim living in her big mansion.

You claim to be “a poor person”. Ok, I'll accept your premise.
If you have at least the sense your deity gave a grasshopper, your very limited resources go for
food, clothing, housing and perhaps medical care for you and any family members. Maybe even a bit for transportation and occasional junk food. If, having attended to such basic needs, you have some spare change left, would you seriously consider spending it on NIL, or putting it aside for education or charity?

I can't believe you would listen to a plea for bucks from millionaires.

Edited to add: She lost her job because her results were in the B+ range, and her boss and other constituents demand better.

 

[MAD]

Poor multi-millionaire Kellie Harper did not get enough money and that's why she lost her job. Boo-hoo, cry me a river. She is such a victim living in her big mansion.

 

[Mafiaboss]

Poor multi-millionaire Kellie Harper did not get enough money and that's why she lost her job. Boo-hoo, cry me a river. She is such a victim living in her big mansion.

Geno and Dawn expect? When did they start telling you about their expectations?
I suspect that all mentally competent coaches and ADs focus their fundraising efforts on the more well-to-do fans.

I mostly agree with you. But charging $20 a game to park is outrageous. I’m financially fine, but I can’t pay $20 a game to park. Riding the free trolley is fine if you have lots of extra time. The Big Orange Screw.

 

[1reVOLver]

I mostly agree with you. But charging $20 a game to park is outrageous. I’m financially fine, but I can’t pay $20 a game to park. Riding the free trolley is fine if you have lots of extra time. The Big Orange Screw.

I share your outrage. But it's easy for me, as I live about 1100 miles from Knoxville. But what has this got to do with “millionaire coaches” and NIL fundraising?

 

[BruisedOrange]

I'm curious if it's normal for the head coach to have to be proactive in seeking AD help. Isn't that his job? He was watching the situation but doing nothing bc she didn't ask nicely?

Sounds like the relationship btw head coach and AD was irretrievably broken for awhile before he fired her. Is it true they never talked at all last yr until he fired her? Sounds like an unhealthy working environment that could have never continued. I'm curious at what point he lost confidence in KJH, if he ever had any.

Also, the continued irrational Jon hate is just astounding. Even after being told Jon was indeed the strong link, it's immediately back to weak link posting. Fact free world. The problem many have w a husband taking second spot to a wife is quite revealing. I wonder if the Vandy and/or Alabama WBB coaching duos (or any of the several others across the country) run into the same prejudices?

I agree with you on the Jon hate insistence, though I'm not sure how much the perception of marital roles is a factor. But for sure, the power of a narrative becomes its weakness when new information is introduced. (The political parties have been milking their narratives for decades, long after demographic realities had switched sides.)

As for head coaches and their Athletic Director... remember that Tennessee has 20 varsity sports programs. So--yes--it's on the coach to approach him, because they should be the first to foresee problems within their own domain.

An exception would be if the problem is coming from a proposed change by the NCAA, that the AD would know about before the coaches.
---------------------------
For anyone interested in further appreciating what Danny White deals with, here's a nice article on how the AD's job demands have changed:

"What once was seen as a job for retired coaches, has now transformed into a role that attracts some of the top executives both in and outside the sports industry. Catalyzed by the explosive rise in popularity of college sports and the seemingly exponential growth of spending by universities to bolster their athletic programs, there has never been a greater need for professionals who bring both a dynamic and robust set of skills to manage these complex, multifaceted business operations."

The Dynamic Role Of The Modern Day College Athletics Director

The future leaders of college athletics in this country are equally intelligent and forward-thinking as they are bold and shrewd.

athleticdirectoru.com

 

[glv98]

I agree with you on the Jon hate insistence, though I'm not sure how much the perception of marital roles is a factor. But for sure, the power of a narrative becomes its weakness when new information is introduced. (The political parties have been milking their narratives for decades, long after demographic realities had switched sides.)

As for head coaches and their Athletic Director... remember that Tennessee has 20 varsity sports programs. So--yes--it's on the coach to approach him, because they should be the first to foresee problems within their own domain.

An exception would be if the problem is coming from a proposed change by the NCAA, that the AD would know about before the coaches.
---------------------------
For anyone interested in further appreciating what Danny White deals with, here's a nice article on how the AD's job demands have changed:

"What once was seen as a job for retired coaches, has now transformed into a role that attracts some of the top executives both in and outside the sports industry. Catalyzed by the explosive rise in popularity of college sports and the seemingly exponential growth of spending by universities to bolster their athletic programs, there has never been a greater need for professionals who bring both a dynamic and robust set of skills to manage these complex, multifaceted business operations."

The Dynamic Role Of The Modern Day College Athletics Director

The future leaders of college athletics in this country are equally intelligent and forward-thinking as they are bold and shrewd.

athleticdirectoru.com

I get that ADs of major programs have huge responsibilities. But you can't check in on your WBB coach more than once a year? Seems strange, esp if she's struggling.

Easy to see that there was major communication breakdown btw AD and Coach for a long time.