Coach Z

#76
#76
unable to coach the dropped balls out of them? Fellas, if you have to have a wr coach at this level to give you the mental confidence to catch the football, you should've been a db. Look at AC Green the last half of the year. Kenny Britt has been dropping balls all year. Those are NFL all pro caliber WR's with the best coaches in the business and they have dropped more than the entire UT WR group.

And don't even look to see that our wr blocking was the best it has been in awhile. That evidently isn't on the radar, though it's what our wr's did best in our best days as a program.
 
#77
#77
Spartacavolus said:
unable to coach the dropped balls out of them? Fellas, if you have to have a wr coach at this level to give you the mental confidence to catch the football, you should've been a db. Look at AC Green the last half of the year. Kenny Britt has been dropping balls all year. Those are NFL all pro caliber WR's with the best coaches in the business and they have dropped more than the entire UT WR group.

And don't even look to see that our wr blocking was the best it has been in awhile. That evidently isn't on the radar, though it's what our wr's did best in our best days as a program.
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I'm with you on this. When did we learn to catch a football correctly? 9 or 10?

It is just a lack of focus, and with a young group on a big stage it is going to happen.

Didn't help they were trying to catch ducks about half the time.
 
#79
#79
KBVol said:
What I'm saying is that he was unable to coach the drop balls out of them. He was also unable, evidently, to coach them to run the correct routes at the correct yardage and to create any separation and get open.



I think North has great potential and got much better as the year went on. I don't think an 18 catch season from 6'5" 225 LB Croom can be used as evidence that Z did a good job. Did Croom get better? I guess... at least he stopped dropping TD passes like he did vs APSU and WKU.
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You know what else helps receivers get open and get seperation? Talent. Speed. Physicality at the LOS.

So North looks phenomenal and its just because hes talented. He didnt struggle with drops. He got open. Yet this isn't a reflection of the coach, more of a reflection of North and his skills. But on the other hand, the rest of our receivers disappoint, yet this is a reflection of the coach and not their talent.

You can't have it both ways.
 
#80
#80
Spartacavolus said:
unable to coach the dropped balls out of them? Fellas, if you have to have a wr coach at this level to give you the mental confidence to catch the football, you should've been a db. Look at AC Green the last half of the year. Kenny Britt has been dropping balls all year. Those are NFL all pro caliber WR's with the best coaches in the business and they have dropped more than the entire UT WR group.

And don't even look to see that our wr blocking was the best it has been in awhile. That evidently isn't on the radar, though it's what our wr's did best in our best days as a program.
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So, when they get on the jugs machine, when they do catching drills in practice, that's really just to do what?.... pass the time?

I think a WR coach should have some type of impact on how well his WRs catch the football. I guess we disagree on that. I'm not trying to discount the importance of our WRs blocking ability in the run game. They did a good job on the whole.

I guess I expect WRs to do a better job of running routes, getting open, catching the ball, making DBs miss after they do catch the ball, scoring touchdowns, stuff like that. I don't think Pearson and Malone were recruited to be great blockers in the run game.
 
#82
#82
K-town Vol Fan said:
You know what else helps receivers get open and get seperation? Talent. Speed. Physicality at the LOS.

So North looks phenomenal and its just because hes talented. He didnt struggle with drops. He got open. Yet this isn't a reflection of the coach, more of a reflection of North and his skills. But on the other hand, the rest of our receivers disappoint, yet this is a reflection of the coach and not their talent.

You can't have it both ways.
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Who's having it both ways? North didn't look phenomenal this year. He looked like physically gifted freshman with a ton of potential who made 5-6 fantastic catches.

I've said that Z had 4 decent WRs to work with this year... North, Pig, Croom and Johnson. North and Pig flashed, Croom had 1 good game vs Ky, Johnson had a catch every now and then that made me think he could contribute.

But their efforts in the passing game were few and far between. All 4 were physically gifted enough to get open, get separation and catch the ball far more often than they did. Some of is on the QBs, some of it on them. My personal opinion is that they weren't good as a group.... Coach Z is their position coach... I put a lot if it on him. I keep going back to the Vandy game because it was the most glaring example of his/their failure this year. Bajakian and Butch essentially gave up on the passing game because they couldn't execute the simplest, most basic routes.... they tried 2 and both were picked....they had 17 passing yds with 30 or so seconds left in the game. Do you think the WRs were really coached up to do their part that game? Can't put it all on Dobbs IMO.
 
#83
#83
Ten_Titans said:
I'm with you on this. When did we learn to catch a football correctly? 9 or 10?

It is just a lack of focus, and with a young group on a big stage it is going to happen.

Didn't help they were trying to catch ducks about half the time.
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Is this a serious post? The catching skills they learned in the 4th grade are supposed to carry them through playing WR in the SEC? You believe a Pop Warner coach teaches a 9 year old how to "catch correctly" and that's it, the kid is good, no need to ever cover that with him again?..... even when he's playing against some of most talented and athletically gifted DBs in the country. It's all about technique for these guys at the SEC level.

I attended their first practice in the Spring. I saw the WRs working constantly on catching the ball. They were actually using black and gray nerf balls about half the time with the jugs machine. And I saw Z constantly coaching them, constantly harping on them about their technique, their hand positioning, snapping their head around early, their foot positioning, how to line up, catching the ball away from their body, etc. What was that for?

Lack of focus? Ok, don't disagree. Who's responsibility is it to make sure his players are ready to play/focused? I'm gonna say the coach. The player surely bears responsibility at this level to prepare himself, but ultimately isn't the coached judged in large part on whether his player is "focused" to play?

Surely we agree that Butch is judged constantly on whether or not the team is focused and plays well.... why wouldn't a position coach?
 
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#84
#84
KBVol said:
So, when they get on the jugs machine, when they do catching drills in practice, that's really just to do what?.... pass the time?

I think a WR coach should have some type of impact on how well his WRs catch the football. I guess we disagree on that. I'm not trying to discount the importance of our WRs blocking ability in the run game. They did a good job on the whole.

I guess I expect WRs to do a better job of running routes, getting open, catching the ball, making DBs miss after they do catch the ball, scoring touchdowns, stuff like that. I don't think Pearson and Malone were recruited to be great blockers in the run game.
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they catch a ton of balls in practice. Just like basketball and other sports, there are a ton of guys that practice well but can't play with the lights on. We've had too many of those recently. WR's are mental. When you get the drops, it's not coaching. Coaches help on hand position, etc of course but WR's either catch it or they don't and that's 100% on them.
 
#85
#85
Spartacavolus said:
they catch a ton of balls in practice. Just like basketball and other sports, there are a ton of guys that practice well but can't play with the lights on. We've had too many of those recently. WR's are mental. When you get the drops, it's not coaching. Coaches help on hand position, etc of course but WR's either catch it or they don't and that's 100% on them.
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Agree to partially disagree. Let's put the drops aside, cause honestly, I was disturbed by our WRs inability to run the right routes and get any separation. If you wanna say the drops are more the responsibility of the player than the coach then ok, I can partially agree with that. How about the route running and technique, or lack thereof, they were using to get open? I didn't see any of that versus Vandy's 2nd string DBs.
 
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#87
#87
Spartacavolus said:
I've seen a dozen drops in NFL games today in the first 2 quarters. Does this mean all their wr coaches suck?
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A dozen? Really?

Betcha those guys ran some pretty decent routes and were open though, eh?
 
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#88
#88
Spartacavolus said:
they catch a ton of balls in practice. Just like basketball and other sports, there are a ton of guys that practice well but can't play with the lights on. We've had too many of those recently. WR's are mental. When you get the drops, it's not coaching. Coaches help on hand position, etc of course but WR's either catch it or they don't and that's 100% on them.
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Kind of like watching Charles Barkley swing a golf club.
 
#89
#89
Spartacavolus said:
I've seen a dozen drops in NFL games today in the first 2 quarters. Does this mean all their wr coaches suck?
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You and I disagree on how well UTs receivers played last year and Coach Z's role in their performance. I put a lot of their lack of development/production over the course of the season on Z and you don't. Simple as that. No worries. Hope they do better next year, no matter who was to blame for their poor play in 2013.
 
#90
#90
KBVol said:
A dozen? Really?

Betcha those guys ran some pretty decent routes and were open though, eh?
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you talking about the wrong route the Falcon wr just ran that lead to a pick 6?

I see busted routes, throws, and drops in every game I watch. Been watching for a long time and see the same things. Just see more of them now with NFL ticket, redzone, etc.
 
#91
#91
KBVol said:
You and I disagree on how well UTs receivers played last year and Coach Z's role in their performance. I put a lot of their lack of development/production over the course of the season on Z and you don't. Simple as that. No worries. Hope they do better next year, no matter who was to blame for their poor play in 2013.
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We don't disagree on how well they played at all. I haven't even touched on that. You don't think they did well and that Z didn't coach well. That's fair. But drops in a game isn't on a coach. Period. And we have a freshman All American, but you choose to give him no credit for it, as well as don't look at: no TE, new system, young qbs, no upperclassmen wr's to teach, new reads... I just like to debate when I think people only look at the side that they want to look at vs the whole picture.
No big deal man.
I also don't think Malone or advisors of a kid like Malone send him to play for a position coach that sucks and they are the ones that see how he coaches and teaches prior to making a decision.
 
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#92
#92
Spartacavolus said:
We don't disagree on how well they played at all. I haven't even touched on that. You don't think they did well and that Z didn't coach well. That's fair. But drops in a game isn't on a coach. Period. And we have a freshman All American, but you choose to give him no credit for it, as well as don't look at: no TE, new system, young qbs, no upperclassmen wr's to teach, new reads... I just like to debate when I think people only look at the side that they want to look at vs the whole picture.
No big deal man.
I also don't think Malone or advisors of a kid like Malone send him to play for a position coach that sucks and they are the ones that see how he coaches and teaches prior to making a decision.
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Fair enough. I saw all the factors you saw and will acknowledge them. I just didn't see WRs being developed as a whole. You did. No worries.
 
#94
#94
KBVol said:
Fair enough. I saw all the factors you saw and will acknowledge them. I just didn't see WRs being developed as a whole. You did. No worries.
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I saw North develop and snag everything near him prior to being injured. I guess they just coached him how to catch better than they did Josh. I didn't see Cody blanc, smith or Jacob carter develop into sec wr's. You are correct there.
 
#96
#96
Spartacavolus said:
they catch a ton of balls in practice. Just like basketball and other sports, there are a ton of guys that practice well but can't play with the lights on. We've had too many of those recently. WR's are mental. When you get the drops, it's not coaching. Coaches help on hand position, etc of course but WR's either catch it or they don't and that's 100% on them.
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I remember watching a NAIA basketball team warm up one time and they had about 4 guys who were lighting it up from 3 point line, I mean looked really good. I'm thinking how come these guys are here. Then the game started and those guys were like 4 for 30 outside arc. Some guys just struggle more when lights come on. Some get over it and some don't!!!! Hope we have the ones that do!!!!
 
#98
#98
If we make it to spring practice without turnover at a single coaching or strength coor. position, it may be the first time that has happened since 2006.
 
#99
#99
Brentwoodvolfan said:
I remember watching a NAIA basketball team warm up one time and they had about 4 guys who were lighting it up from 3 point line, I mean looked really good. I'm thinking how come these guys are here. Then the game started and those guys were like 4 for 30 outside arc. Some guys just struggle more when lights come on. Some get over it and some don't!!!! Hope we have the ones that do!!!!
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there are many, many, good practice players. When nothing matters, everybody can hit the shot or make the pass.
We just need some gamers. North is a gamer. Pig is a gamer. They just need some help.
 
#100
#100
Spartacavolus said:
But drops in a game isn't on a coach. Period.
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Ummm. Did you just say that the WR coach isn't responsible for WR's catching the ball? I beg to differ. That's one of his primary responsibilities.

The worst part of that is that the players continued to drop players all year long. Very little improvement. There was marginal improvement in route running but not nearly enough. Out of all the O coaches. Z did the least impressive job.
 
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