Could the next 2 games decide Manning vs Brady debate?

[BOP]

The QB rating is all well and good, but the one stat that can't be measured simply in numbers is Manning's penchant for making backbreaking mistakes. That's been a running theme as long as I've watched him play. It happened in the SB with the Saints, at least a couple other playoff games through his career, and he buried UT with pick 6's in both the '96 and '97 UF games.

How did Brady fair in the 09 playoffs? How did Brady perform in the 07 Superbowl? Didn't he throw the ball away from the end zone in the pocket in the 11 suberbowl? Lmao. But those 30 yard fg drives were epic early in his career. Captain clutch everybody.

 

[BOP]

How is Brees not efficient? And Peyton has even hinted he's not going to play much longer.

Brees has seasons of 19 and 22 ints his last 4 years.You said the most he is going to play is one more year. This sounds like wishful thinking from you. Manning is not going to retire 1 year away from the yardage record.

 

[BOP]

Correction, Manning didn't actually throw a pick-6 against UF in '96. The play that went back for a TD was actually a fumble. He did however throw two other interceptions that have the Gators the ball less than 25 yards from the endzone.

I bet you think Martin was better than Manning in college don't you? Sounds like you have a problem with fulmers game plan or cutcliffes play calling more than manning.

 

[bleedorange0037]

How did Brady fair in the 09 playoffs? How did Brady perform in the 07 Superbowl? Didn't he throw the ball away from the end zone in the pocket in the suberbowl? Lmao. But those 30 yard fg drives were epic early in his career. Captain clutch everybody.

Brady has had some poor performances in the playoffs. There's no denying that. In fact, I'll agree with you that he may even be overvalued as a postseason performer thanks to cementing that legacy early in his career but then not being as consistent later on.

What I can't remember is him making a disastrous play that flat out got his team beat in a playoff game, which Manning has done on more than one occasion. The fact of the matter is with the SB on the line Brady has twice taken his team down the field to get the winning points. In Manning's only similar opportunity he threw an INT that ended the game.

 

[bleedorange0037]

I bet you think Martin was better than Manning in college don't you? Sounds like you have a problem with fulmers game plan or cutcliffes play calling more than manning.

Why would I have a problem with Fulmer or Cutcliffe's game plans? The plays weren't drawn up for Manning to sail passes five yards over receivers heads for INTS or throw screens that got intercepted.

And no, I don't think Tee Martin was a better college QB than Manning.

 

[BOP]

Brady has had some poor performances in the playoffs. There's no denying that. In fact, I'll agree with you that he may even be overvalued as a postseason performer thanks to cementing that legacy early in his career but then not being as consistent later on.

What I can't remember is him making a disastrous play that flat out got his team beat in a playoff game, which Manning has done on more than one occasion. The fact of the matter is with the SB on the line Brady has twice taken his team down the field to get the winning points. In Manning's only similar opportunity he threw an INT that ended the game.

And there is the crutch of the whole argument. Manning has been significantly better for the vast majority of seasons throughout their careers but Brady led a few fg drives in the super bowl early in his career. I sure hope Manning leads a game winning TD drive on Sunday, or better yt brady throws a game ending INT. But I'm sure you are going to guarantee that won't happen.

 

[BOP]

Why would I have a problem with Fulmer or Cutcliffe's game plans? The plays weren't drawn up for Manning to sail passes five yards over receivers heads for INTS or throw screens that got intercepted.

And no, I don't think Tee Martin was a better college QB than Manning.

Because they had throw 50 or 60 times a game? They built the entire game plan around him being able to outscore Florida solely with his arm, despite having a supremely talented team. Maybe your blame should really be with chavis.

 

[bleedorange0037]

And there is the crutch of the whole argument. Manning has been significantly better for the vast majority of seasons throughout their careers but Brady led a few fg drives in the super bowl early in his career. I sure hope Manning leads a game winning TD drive on Sunday, or better yt brady throws a game ending INT. But I'm sure you are going to guarantee that won't happen.

I'm not going to guarantee anything. Brady has made plenty of mistakes throughout his career, just not with a playoff game on the line yet.

 

[bleedorange0037]

Because they had throw 50 or 60 times a game? They built the entire game plan around him being able to outscore Florida solely with his arm, despite having a supremely talented team. Maybe your blame should really be with chavis.

Nope. Chavis wasn't the one who threw the horrible INTS that ended both games before they ever really started either. That's what drives me so crazy about the Manning slurpers. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault. The guy is a phenomenal QB, but he's not without shortcomings like some folks seem to believe.

 

[BOP]

I'm not going to guarantee anything. Brady has made plenty of mistakes throughout his career, just not with a playoff game on the line yet.

You are confused. Brady has had several chances to win playoff games and couldn't get it done. Whether there was an int was involved or not at the very end is irrelevant. Manning's biggest problem in both 09 and last year as welk as a few other times in his career, was getting too conservative when he had the lead. I think we saw yesterday that this wont be the problem this year.

 

[BOP]

Nope. Chavis wasn't the one who threw the horrible INTS that ended both games before they ever really started either. That's what drives me so crazy about the Manning slurpers. It's ALWAYS someone else's fault. The guy is a phenomenal QB, but he's not without shortcomings like some folks seem to believe.

This is what really bothers me about the idiots who hate on true greatness but call "not making a mistake" greatness. Peyton Manning played outstanding football at least 2 of the 3 games against Florida. To solely place the blame on him for losing games in which he lit Florida up because he made a few mistakes is assinine. These are the people who hate on guys likemarino and favre and manning, who were the best in the game for a decade while hyping guys like Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisburger and last year Joe flacco. I'm not going to put Brady in that discussion because he is an all time great. Not because of the super bowl wins or because he didn't throw an int in a certain spot, but because he has played the game at a very high level. Manning however has played it at the very highest level it has ever been played.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

The Manning playoff myth is almost as large as the brady playoff myth. Manning has a better playoff QBR.

So its all about stats right?

 

[BOP]

So its all about stats right?

No, my point is that winning super bowls is not solely based on QB play, which means that these guys can't be judged solely on super bowl wins. And that's the only way you can put brady above manning.

 

[bleedorange0037]

This is what really bothers me about the idiots who hate on true greatness but call "not making a mistake" greatness. Peyton Manning played outstanding football at least 2 of the 3 games against Florida. To solely place the blame on him for losing games in which he lit Florida up because he made a few mistakes is assinine. These are the people who hate on guys like favre and manning, who were the best in the game for a decade while hyping guys like Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisburger and last year Joe flacco. I'm not going to put Brady in that discussion because he is an all time great. Not because of the super bowl wins or because he didn't throw an int in a certain spot, but because he has played the game at a very high level. Manning however has played it at the very highest level it has ever been played.

Just because a certain player makes a ton of great plays doesn't give him immunity from criticism for the bad ones. Manning made a lot of great throws in the '96 and '97 UF games. He also made about 3 that effectively destroyed UT's chances to win either game. You can't just say those don't matter, because the ultimate purpose of going out in the field is to win the games, not stack up crazy amounts yards and TD's. All those things are meaningless if you can't win.

 

[sport111]

What was bellicheks record before he had Brady ?

 

[BOP]

Just because a certain player makes a ton of great plays doesn't give him immunity from criticism for the bad ones. Manning made a lot of great throws in the '96 and '97 UF games. He also made about 3 that effectively destroyed UT's chances to win either game. You can't just say those don't matter, because the ultimate purpose of going out in the field is to win the games, not stack up crazy amounts yards and TD's. All those things are meaningless if you can't win.

Absolute trash, I didn't say he wasn't responsible for mistakes. You said you blame him instead. Now let's analyze this. Peyton manning made crucial mistakes in his job as a qb but also played great football. John chavis was absolutely outclassed and owned by Spurrier.

 

[bleedorange0037]

No, my point is that winning super bowls is not solely based on QB play, which means that these guys can't be judged solely on super bowl wins. And that's the only way you can put brady above manning.

FTR, I don't really have Brady ahead of Manning. There's a small group of QB's that have reached the mountaintop of playing the position, both guys belong in that group IMO, and trying to distinguish between them is pointless. I was just arguing the ridiculous (IMO) notion that Manning is CLEARLY the better of the two. Both guys have consistently led their teams to playoff appearances in just about every year they've been healthy, so that's pretty much a dead heat. Manning has all the stats, but Brady has the rings. Both facets are important to a players legacy.

 

[BOP]

What was bellicheks record before he had Brady ?

I don't know but he was what 10-6 without him? What was Indy's record after peyton got hurt? Give it a rest, tom brady is largely responsible for the patriots success over the last 7 or 8 years. Much, much less so for their super bowl wins.

 

[BOP]

FTR, I don't really have Brady ahead of Manning. There's a small group of QB's that have reached the mountaintop of playing the position, both guys belong in that group IMO, and trying to distinguish between them is pointless. I was just arguing the ridiculous (IMO) notion that Manning is CLEARLY the better of the two. Both guys have consistently led their teams to playoff appearances in just about every year they've been healthy, so that's pretty much a dead heat. Manning has all the stats, but Brady has the rings. Both facets are important to a players legacy.

Brady has stats too, several of his seasons over the last 7 years are unbelievable statisticly. That is why he is one of the greats. He would still be a hof without the super bowls. He would still be far better than Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisburger if he had zero rings.

 

[Pope John Vol VI]

I don't know but he was what 10-6 without him? What was Indy's record after peyton got hurt? Give it a rest, tom brady is largely responsible for the patriots success over the last 7 or 8 years. Much, much less so for their super bowl wins.

10 pages of posts and this is the 1st time someone mentioned how their respective teams did the years they missed. I think its telling.

 

[bleedorange0037]

Brady has stats too, several of his seasons over the last 7 years are unbelievable statisticly. That is why he is one of the greats. He would still be a hof without the super bowls. He would still be far better than Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisburger if he had zero rings.

He'd be headed for the HOF, but all those gaudy numbers are effectively meaningless if you aren't parlaying them into wins. The outcome of the games does actually matter.

 

[sport111]

Who took over the years they were hurt. Curtis painter for the colts and never was on an nfl roster again. Cassell for the pats and has been a nfl stater almost every year since. Then Andrew luck takes over and they win 11 again

 

[BOP]

He'd be headed for the HOF, but all those gaudy numbers are effectively meaningless if you aren't parlaying them into wins. The outcome of the games does actually matter.

Believe it or not, you can win games without winning superbowls. This is another of the myths surrounding the game. If brady had zero super bowls he would still have a far better w/l record than either of those 2. Manning and brady are the only guys who pretty much always have their team in the playoffs. They don't have terrible years. Their teams don't go 8-8 or 4-12.

 

[sport111]

Btw bill was 53 -63 before tom

 

[bleedorange0037]

10 pages of posts and this is the 1st time someone mentioned how their respective teams did the years they missed. I think its telling.

But it was also brought up that Belichick was a mediocre at best HC prior to joining up with Brady. To say the Pats could have accomplished what they did over the past 12 years with ANY QB as long as Belichick was running the show is inaccurate.