Da Reds thread

#11,151
#11,151
Payroll cost per hit this season. Thought I would post this before I vomited on my laptop.

Votto $214,268
Bernadina $111,111
Hannahan $111,111
Ludwick $97,701
Bruce $93,847
Phillips $$89,431
Schumaker $34,483
Heisey $28,852
Santiago $25,000
Pena $9,943
Cozart $5,357
Mesoraco $5,000
Frazier $3,681
Hamilton $3,546

Very interesting that the team's most productive players cost the least for their production. So their was no support this year for the theory that paying more with longer contracts will guarantee good production. In fact, it was just the opposite. So why does Walter persist in doing long term, rich deals? Because he is an idiot or because the game has passed him by?
 
#11,152
#11,152
I guess that's one way to look at it.

I don't think it's very fair, or accurate in making a legitimate point though. Wouldn't the guys who were healthy and got more plate appearances typically have a lower cost per hit ratio? Not to mention, the younger guys - coincidentally the healthy and most productive this year - haven't hit their first big contract. Nor have they had any kind of breakout season until now to demand very much money. Quite the opposite with Votto, Bruce and BP.

However, I agree 100% with you that the contracts Jock has assembled have put us in a serious bind; particularly Votto, BP & Homer. It will be interesting to see what happens this offseason. Given his history, I'm not expecting anything very exciting.
 
#11,153
#11,153
Appalachiamuck said:
I guess that's one way to look at it.

I don't think it's very fair, or accurate in making a legitimate point though. Wouldn't the guys who were healthy and got more plate appearances typically have a lower cost per hit ratio? Not to mention, the younger guys - coincidentally the healthy and most productive this year - haven't hit their first big contract. Nor have they had any kind of breakout season until now to demand very much money. Quite the opposite with Votto, Bruce and BP.

However, I agree 100% with you that the contracts Jock has assembled have put us in a serious bind; particularly Votto, BP & Homer. It will be interesting to see what happens this offseason. Given his history, I'm not expecting anything very exciting.
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Oh, I agree. It's just pointing out the irony. Walter has not been good at knowing when to sell right as the upside begins to turn negative. In other words he locks in at the high point. The better teams tend to sell and receive added upside before that happens. That is critical with small market teams, but also with some that have more funding. No way should they have done the deal with Votto. Work a trade while the value perception is high whenever everybody else is bidding payroll up.
 
#11,154
#11,154
While watching the playoffs I am reminded just how much better the Giants, Cards, O's, and Royals organizations are than our guys. Our guys may occasionally get in the playoffs, then they proceed to lay an egg. Those 4 teams have numerous guys that elevate their play when it matters most along with managers/coach staffs that actually know what they are doing.

Which makes the off season even more depressing knowing Walter and Bryan will be back along with his highness, Votto.
 
#11,155
#11,155
I want to provide this link for all the DA trolls and self appointed experts that harass on here. Real baseball people know the game and how it all fits. You would do good to listen to some of us and learn, but you won't. Too busy deluding yourselves and others.

We will get through this Champy, Blue, Volatil, etc.

Cincinnati Reds Rumors - MLB Trade Rumors
 
#11,157
#11,157
Time for good news. Smith out as 3rd base coach. 28 runners thrown out at home plate this past season - obviously easily led MLB in that stat. No hire announced yet.

Iglesias appears to be the real deal in early returns in the developmental league. Likely be a good replacement of one of the 2-3 starters they are going to lose by the end of 2015 unless Walter wakes up from his years long snooze and makes a deal or two. To go with Stephenson moving up by then, that will leave them Bailey and whoever they choose to re-sign. So at least 4 starters are lined up. Winker appears to be the real deal so a bat is on the way by 2016.

The negative is that the manager and the rest of his staff (Hatcher retained - but excluded from this comment) are retained for next season. So the same hitting coach that was terminated from the Rats for incompetence, gets to hang around another season and do his magic with our guys. And in an "imagine that" moment, Jay Bell doesn't get hired as a manager despite the PR that he will be a great manager someday in MLB. I guess they saw how he filled out the line-up card differently nearly every day and decided they didn't need a woman's brain (sexist comment) in the manager role.

What happened to the Giants mid-season is mind blowing to me. How did our guys take all 4 games in a series in Frisco last season? Weird.
 
#11,159
#11,159
Luddy, Hannahan gone along with $6.5 mill of Bob's exit money. Santiago the only other FA left and they will probably re-sign him since he wants to stay. Picked up Cueto's option, which they would have to do regardless of what happens with him.
 
#11,160
#11,160
Vols4us said:
Luddy, Hannahan gone along with $6.5 mill of Bob's exit money. Santiago the only other FA left and they will probably re-sign him since he wants to stay. Picked up Cueto's option, which they would have to do regardless of what happens with him.
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not going to help much.
 
#11,161
#11,161
champyvol said:
not going to help much.
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Everything I have seen so far is it will be lipstick on the pig because of the ASG. If they are sellers after the ASG they move Cueto and maybe Chappy at the same time to kick off the rebuild. Nobody much thinks Walter has the balls to rebuild this off season.

Possibly Aoki in LF on a 3 year deal. An OBP guy. Great. He and Votto hitting second and third in the order. Maybe they can walk Billy to third for Mes and Frazier. lol.
 
#11,163
#11,163
I think they are just gauging interest on Bruce so they can plan future moves and to make him and his agent antsy. Hope something will happen, but doubt it.

Big trade talk is Cueto for Cespedes and two MLB ready prospect from the BoSox. Another had Latos or Leake straight up for Cespedes. On the FA front negotiations for Justin Upton now that Nelson Cruz set the bar at $57 M over 4 yrs. Aoki/Morse still in play as well. I would rather have Upton, Cespedes and Aoki in order. Morse has pop but is terrible in the OF and injury prone. I think Votto will come back more like OBP Joey as compared to power Joey, so they would be better off with the first two.

Heisey gone to LAD in exchange for a AAA level pitcher. Great. Walter has signed a bunch of that type for Louisville and the bench. The good news is Lurch (Ondrusek) is gone along with Partch. Not tendered.
 
#11,167
#11,167
Now - Walter acts like he is shocked to hear people talking about trading for Chappy and Cueto. Don't know if he is that out of it or just playing that way. Rollins just went to LAD as a bridge for Seager. Yet, here we sit again, with no bridge to Winker and down a bat; with 80% of the starting pitching staff gone after next season.
 
#11,171
#11,171
What do you guys think of the Latos deal?

Anthony DeSlafani (P), 24 yr old, Minors up through AAA: 354.1 IP, 26-16, 3.23 ERA, 1.24 WHIP, 8.60 K/9, 2.23 BB/9.

Chad Wallach (C), 23 yr old, Class A in 2 seasons: 481 AB, .293 AVG, .392 OBP, .399 SLG, .791 OPS, 7 HR, 73 Runs, 70 RBI.

I really like the Simon deal. I think the rebuild is happening now.
 
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#11,173
#11,173
champyvol said:
simon deal wasn't bad. latos deal was horrible. jocketty sucks. trade a number 1 or 2 pitcher for average prospects is just stupid.
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I think the Simon deal was great. He is a middle of the pack reliever who was a starter for one season and had a very good (albeit lucky) first half only to come back to earth in the 2nd half. We got their 2013 1st round pick and what looks to be a young, very solid middle infielder, #2 bat in the lineup. I'm no expert, but that seems like a great trade to me.

I'm not a big fan of the Latos deal either right now. Just dumb.
 
#11,174
#11,174
I'm starting not to hate the Latos deal after doing a little more research.

We get 6 years control of DeSclafani, who was ranked the Marlins #2 prospect by Fangraphs, while we would have only had 1 year of control with Latos. We have cleared nearly $27 Mil this offseason. This gives us room to go get a LF bat and hopefully re-negotiate with Cueto.

Wallach is ranked the #19 prospect in the Marlins system. From what I've read he has a great bat, but is obviously a ways off from contributing at the MLB level.

With the Simon deal we got Suarez who can play either middle infield spot. He has a solid bat, gets on base a lot, steals some bases and plays solid D. This gives us the flexibility to move one of Cozart or BP. Crawford may turn into something, but as of now who knows. I'd have been happy to get Suarez straight up for Simon.
 
#11,175
#11,175
Appalachiamuck said:
I'm starting not to hate the Latos deal after doing a little more research.

We get 6 years control of DeSclafani, who was ranked the Marlins #2 prospect by Fangraphs, while we would have only had 1 year of control with Latos. We have cleared nearly $27 Mil this offseason. This gives us room to go get a LF bat and hopefully re-negotiate with Cueto.

Wallach is ranked the #19 prospect in the Marlins system. From what I've read he has a great bat, but is obviously a ways off from contributing at the MLB level.

With the Simon deal we got Suarez who can play either middle infield spot. He has a solid bat, gets on base a lot, steals some bases and plays solid D. This gives us the flexibility to move one of Cozart or BP. Crawford may turn into something, but as of now who knows. I'd have been happy to get Suarez straight up for Simon.
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You're far too reasonable to post in this thread. God bless you.
 
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