Derek Chauvin trial

#251
#251
Weezer said:
I'm of the opinion that at the very least, Chauvin contributed to Floyd's death. The force was excessive when you consider the length of time Floyd was held in that position while repeatedly letting it be known that he couldn't breathe. I di think Floyd resisted because as I recall, he refused to get in the patrol car. Some level of restraint was needed. But I believe Chauvin went too far.
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I agree with this.
 
#252
#252
Weezer said:
I'm of the opinion that at the very least, Chauvin contributed to Floyd's death. The force was excessive when you consider the length of time Floyd was held in that position while repeatedly letting it be known that he couldn't breathe. I di think Floyd resisted because as I recall, he refused to get in the patrol car. Some level of restraint was needed. But I believe Chauvin went too far.
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listen I sit on my niece's head all the time and she's totally fine. Obviously the Floyd died from drugs and drugs only :cool:;)
 
#253
#253
Septic said:
No assumptions are necessary, the autopsy reports imply that "enough" pressure was exerted to kill him.

I don't get you police apologists. Even in the face of video evidence you lick their boots or is there something else?
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No one knows how much pressure was put on his neck. Im not defend the police, just pointing out what i saw. Lick their boot? Another dumbazz statement from the same type poster. Yes, you're making assumptions, if he didn't have the drugs in his body, he's alive today.
 
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#254
#254
K-town Vol Fan said:
So if I get drunk one night, unarmed, see a cop and decide I want to try to fight him and he shoots and kills me is that is justified? I dont think it is. Lethal force like this officer used should only be used when his life is in danger, and it never was.
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But the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the officer killed him and not the lethal dose of Fentanyl in his system. Both of those could have been the cause of death. I think the difference may be the fluid in his lungs based on some "experts" who have commented online. I'll wait to see what the trial experts say but at this point I think it shows more than reasonable doubt.
 
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#255
#255
OL SMOKEY said:
So your stating that the drugs had nothing to do with his death? It was just the knee to Floyd’s neck? Secondly, I am far from a police bootlicker as you stated. I’ll wait to hear all the evidence presented from both sides.
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I'm saying that the MD's point to the knee to the neck is cited as the proximate cause of his death, not drugs. The M.E. when asked about the "fatal level" of drugs in Floyd, couldn't affirm they played a role.

I don't understand why this isn't clicking with you guys, it seems to be easy to grasp.

But for one believing it was a heart attack and the other asphyxiation - the two guys charged with figuring out what killed him both agree that the root cause was a compression of his neck.
 
#256
#256
Volgolfer1618 said:
No one knows how much pressure was put on his neck. Im not defend the police, just pointing out what i saw. Lick their boot? Another dumbazz statement from the same type poster. Yes, you're making assumptions, if he didn't have the drugs in his body, he's alive today.
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The two doctors who examined Floyd's remains know how much pressure their was, it was at least enough to kill him.

No assumptions are necessary to understand the autopsy reports, bootlicker.
 
#257
#257
Septic said:
put your knee into your sons neck for ten minutes while he screams for his mother and slips out of consciousness. Be sure to keep your knee there for three and half minutes after he loses consciousness. Also be sure to ignore please from everyone telling you he's no longer breathing.

And when it turns out that everyone was right and your son is dead please report back on how it wasn't your fault.
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Now you are moving the goalposts..... I stated that you can varying degrees of pressure no matter if your knee is on someone or not.

Now you are arguing whether the cop should have been more aware of the situation that Floyd was facing..... My answer to that is I don’t know bc I wasn’t in that situation...Every single situation I have witnessed like that has the perp yelling stuff (some true and a lot that is not true) and a crowd yelling at the cop. I don’t know how I would have reacted in an intense situation like that.

As for my kids, I teach them every day that choices have consequences and putting yourself in bad situations will eventually lead to your demise.... That is what happened to George Floyd.... Taking emotion out of it( easy for me bc I don’t find Floyd or the cop very likeable).... if there is evidence of strangulation then the cop needs to go to jail and if there is not then he is innocent of murder. It’s really that simple.
 
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#258
#258
KB5252 said:
But the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the officer liked him and not the lethal dose of Fentanyl in his system. Both of those could have been the cause of death. I think the difference may be the fluid in his lungs based on some "experts" who have commented online. I'll wait to see what the trial experts say but at this point I think it shows more than reasonable doubt.
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The prosecution is going to have to discredit the only two qualified people who examined the remains in order to establish the fentanyl killed him.
 
#259
#259
Septic said:
The two doctors who examined Floyd's remains know how much pressure their was, it was at least enough to kill him.

No assumptions are necessary to understand the autopsy reports, bootlicker.
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Lol, you really want that cop guilty dont you.
 
#260
#260
volbeast33 said:
Now you are moving the goalposts..... I stated that you can varying degrees of pressure no matter if your knee is on someone or not.

Now you are arguing whether the cop should have been more aware of the situation that Floyd was facing..... My answer to that is I don’t know bc I wasn’t in that situation...Every single situation I have witnessed like that has the perp yelling stuff (some true and a lot that is not true) and a crowd yelling at the cop. I don’t know how I would have reacted in an intense situation like that.

As for my kids, I teach them every day that choices have consequences and putting yourself in bad situations will eventually lead to your demise.... That is what happened to George Floyd.... Taking emotion out of it( easy for me bc I don’t find Floyd or the cop very likeable).... if there is evidence of strangulation then the cop needs to go to jail and if there is not then he is innocent of murder. It’s really that simple.
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Whatever dude, you brought up your kid and a knee in his "back" as some sort of anecdotal gotcha. That I likened your personal anecdote to the autopsy and video evidence isn't a moved goal post, I simply made it relevant to our discussion.
 
#263
#263
Septic said:
Whatever dude, you brought up your kid and a knee in his "back" as some sort of anecdotal gotcha. That I likened your personal anecdote to the autopsy and video evidence isn't a moved goal post, I simply made it relevant to our discussion.
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It was a reply to your comment about hovering above his neck..... I was using my kids as an example to show that just bc a knee is there does not mean you are crushing anything.... if it is proven in court that the one autopsy is correct that there was no acute choking or acute asphyxiation then I feel he is innocent.
 
#264
#264
Weezer said:
Only Floyd wasn't shot, he was restrained after resisting arrest. Let's be clear, when he refused to go into the patrol car, he was actively resisting arrest. Now, the question becomes did Chauvin use excessive force to restrain him. My opinion, without hearing all the facts of the case and just going on what I've seen and heard, is yes, based on the amount of time he held Floyd in a stressor position. For that and that alone, I think Chauvin is responsible for contributing to his death. Now, did the drugs in his system or prior health conditions of which Chauvin could not have been aware also contribute? I have no idea. That's why they have medical experts testify. It's up to the jury to take all of that, try to make sense of it, and render a verdict. JMO, but the guy is guilty of manslaughter. Again, I haven't seen all the evidence so I'm just giving an opinion, but I believe the actions of both Chauvin and Floyd resulted in Floyd's death.
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If indeed a knee to the head is a "stressor position" then I can't imagine it'd be a recommended technique taught in Minneapolis police training. If indeed that is "in the book" as to police training then I think Chauvin is safe legally in using it. He did not beat up Floyd, nor did he tase him. Furthermore his knee was not applying sufficient force to keep Floyd from moving his head. My guess is this is consistent with his training. That's really all we can ask of an officer, is to go by their training when performing their job

If I'm on the jury, I'm going to be looking for testimony from experts who say that such a neck restraint causes fluid to build up in the lungs
 
#265
#265
volbeast33 said:
It was a reply to your comment about hovering above his neck..... I was using my kids as an example to show that just bc a knee is there does not mean you are crushing anything.... if it is proven in court that the one autopsy is correct that there was no acute choking or acute asphyxiation then I feel he is innocent.
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Even if, it's a policy and training issue.
 
#266
#266
hUTch2002 said:
No, you have it backwards. He’s presumed innocent. The prosecution has to prove he was killed by that officer beyond reasonable doubt. To me, there’s no way that’s possible with the amount of drugs in his system. There’s no way to know for sure that the drugs didn’t play a role in his death, thus reasonable doubt is established and the cop is not guilty. This really should be pretty simple no matter what anyone feels about what happened.
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The drug issue is going to have to come from the defense. They'd have to mount an affirmative defense (not prove, but certainly argue) that the drugs killed Floyd and not Chauvin. Given the video and the autopsies, simply bringing up the toxicology report might not be enough to convince a jury. They're going to repeatedly see images of a cop pressing his knee onto Floyd's neck for several minutes after he'd stopped breathing. The defense won't be able to point to those videos and say "you're watching a guy overdose on fentanyl." They're going to need to argue that Floyd would have dropped dead with or without Chauvin's intervention.
 
#268
#268
volbeast33 said:
If he crushed his larynx.... choked him or caused strangulation......then I feel he is guilty..... if not then it is a policy and training issue.
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If training has told him to do this, then I feel it's analogous to a taser killing someone. It's not intentional and based on the video, he wasn't applying unnatural pressure like digging into his neck so I don't think he was acting to kill him. He wasn't really reacting to Floyd but rather focused on the crowd nonchalantly. Perhaps different evidence surfaces but that hold should not restrict breathing on its own. It'll be interesting to follow to see the analysis of several experts on both sides. Glad I'm not on the jury.
 
#271
#271
Here's a video of George Floyd's arrest one year prior, in May 2019. A lot of similarities but one big difference: He eventually agreed to get in the squad car. If he'd done that in 2020, would he still be alive today? If the answer's yes, then his refusal to cooperate contributed to his death. If the answer's no then Chauvin is innocent 'cause he would have died anyway



Just remember, this guy's life is worth $28 million
 
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#273
#273
Sea Ray said:
Here's a video of George Floyd's arrest one year prior, in May 2019. A lot of similarities but one big difference: He eventually agreed to get in the squad car. If he'd done that in 2020, would he still be alive today? If the answer's yes, then his refusal to cooperate contributed to his death. If the answer's no then Chauvin is innocent 'cause he would have died anyway



Just remember, this guy's life is worth $28 million
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What happened in 2019 is irrelevant to what happened that day and so is the civil settlement from the Minny PD for their mistakes.

The cop either killed Floyd that day or he didn't. Those other things are just cheap red herrings that make your argument look stupid
 
#274
#274
utvols88 said:
If training has told him to do this, then I feel it's analogous to a taser killing someone. It's not intentional and based on the video, he wasn't applying unnatural pressure like digging into his neck so I don't think he was acting to kill him. He wasn't really reacting to Floyd but rather focused on the crowd nonchalantly. Perhaps different evidence surfaces but that hold should not restrict breathing on its own. It'll be interesting to follow to see the analysis of several experts on both sides. Glad I'm not on the jury.
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I disagree..... it’s impossible to know how much pressure he is applying from that video.... if the autopsy shows he crushed his larynx or caused acute choking/asphyxiation then he is guilty of murder.
 
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