Derek Chauvin trial

And yet Philando Castile was shot in front of his kids just for exercising his 2nd Amendment rights and there was no justice.

Same state as Floyd FYI, which is why there will be no justice here.

Those cases are actually quite different. In the case of Castile the jury heard the testimony and believed the officer that his life was in danger. In fact after hearing everything, jurors by a margin of 10-2 thought the officer should be acquitted. It was all on film. OJ was a case of no justice. Those jurors ignored evidence and instead decided to practice "jury nullification" to acquit him.

I do agree with you that our system is imperfect. I disagree that Chauvin will be acquitted. He'll be found guilty of something but in the end he won't serve much time.
 
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I dont understand how manslaughter is an option, let alone appropriate. The defense is solely arguing that Floyd died from a drug overdose, not from Chauvlin's knee, so it can't be murder. If you are to believe that, then how do you arrive at manslaughter?

seems to me, manslaughter is just the "compromise option." He's a dick, he should get something. But the law doesn't work that way. I think Chauvin walks free unfortunately

If they vote for manslaughter then obviously they're not buying what the defense is selling. If they go that direction then they think Chauvin was responsible for Floyd's death but they don't think he intended to kill GF. In other words, he wasn't putting a knee on GF with the intent to kill him.

Do you disagree with that? You think he intended to kill GF?
 
Well he's getting his free trial. I suspect he will be acquitted because cops always are. Our justice system has flaws, sadly.

You got that right. I mean when high level members of the government can commit perjury and laugh in the face of our legal system, you know we have problems. But yeah it’s just police that get off 🙄
 
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If they vote for manslaughter then obviously they're not buying what the defense is selling. If they go that direction then they think Chauvin was responsible for Floyd's death but they don't think he intended to kill GF. In other words, he wasn't putting a knee on GF with the intent to kill him.

Do you disagree with that? You think he intended to kill GF?

None of us can speak to intent. But I absolutely think he wasn't worried about consequences and had little regard for Floyd's protests.
 
If they vote for manslaughter then obviously they're not buying what the defense is selling. If they go that direction then they think Chauvin was responsible for Floyd's death but they don't think he intended to kill GF. In other words, he wasn't putting a knee on GF with the intent to kill him.

Do you disagree with that? You think he intended to kill GF?

3rd degree murder, which is what he is charged with, does not require intent in Minnesota. So its an irrelevant question
 
A good explanation for your question and I appreciate the insight.

Here's where I differ: I don't blame racism for the enormous damage to our country just like I don't blame the firearm when there is a mass shooting. The blame goes straight to the people who committed to crimes (murder, destruction of property, et al).
There has been and continues to be a constant, chronic conversation about race in this country. That conversation will continue regardless of the outcome of the trial and whether racism is demonstrably proven as a factor or not.
The irony is the races are more harmonized and homogenized than ever. Violent crime is trending downward. The micro populations who are the most vocal, most ardent, and most active are also the most promoted by the media. I've chosen to ignore the media narrative and focus on what's in front of me...my relationships with others.
Very well said
 
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And yet Philando Castile was shot in front of his kids just for exercising his 2nd Amendment rights and there was no justice.

Same state as Floyd FYI, which is why there will be no justice here.
That is a better example..... I don’t know how we address that situation as a society but it makes me mad that he lost his life in that situation.
 
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3rd degree murder, which is what he is charged with, does not require intent in Minnesota. So its an irrelevant question

That's a tough sell.

<<An opinion cited in a Maryland appeals court case, Debettencourt v. State, said a depraved mind involves "a knowingly dangerous act with reckless and wanton unconcern and indifference as to whether anyone is harmed or not." It was also described as "a state of mind just as blameworthy, just as anti-social… just as truly murderous as the specific intents to kill...">>

Even the judge in this case isn't buying it. This was forced on him by the Appeals Court

Minnesota's 3rd degree murder charge, explained

I think you run a huge chance of that being overturned on appeal if you go with that
 
When people commit crimes it is natural to want to see justice.

What crime? He followed established training that's been used many times before.
Im not saying he's innocent ot guilty, im looking at the video and i don't see the cop using excessive force
 
I don't know if there were motions filed ahead of time and ruled upon already, but I am very surprised by the extent to which the State is being allowed to talk about such things as what kind of guy Floyd was in eyes of family and friends, allowing the paramedic who testified early on who was off duty at time allowed to testify wearing her uniform, and similar such things.
 
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What crime? He followed established training that's been used many times before.
Im not saying he's innocent ot guilty, im looking at the video and i don't see the cop using excessive force
I think the force at first may not have been excessive, but the force should match the level of resistance. The hold should have been released much sooner than it was.

With that being said I believe Floyd would still have died due the level of Fentanyl he ingested per toxicology reports, but the officer would not be on trial right now. He wasn't using great judgement and as others have opined he is to some degree responsible for the outcome he finds himself in.
 
I don't know if there were motions filed ahead of time and ruled upon already, but I am very surprised by the extent to which the State is being allowed to talk about such things as what kind of guy Floyd was in eyes of family and friends, allowing the paramedic who testified early on who was off duty at time allowed to testify wearing her uniform, and similar such things.
It seemsike the entire argument from the prosecution is emotion, which is a terrible thing in criminal court.
 
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It seemsike the entire argument from the prosecution is emotion, which is a terrible thing in criminal court.


It is to be expected of eye witnesses, although I think it has gone a bit far afield at times and too far into just race relations generally.

And though I think those sentiments should be expressed in some forum, its not relevant in the criminal prosecution. I just have to think this was covered pretrial and the judge has ruled it is admissible.
 
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You've just described manslaughter and not murder

I agree manslaughter should be the charge.

But his willful disregard for what Floyd was openly pleading makes the “involuntary” part at least questionable. If somebody says they can’t breathe and you continue to do what you are doing, does that constitute intent to kill?

I honestly don’t know. I’m not a lawyer or expert. I think manslaughter fits, but I can see how a good lawyer can make the case for a more serious charge.
 
The drug issue is going to have to come from the defense. They'd have to mount an affirmative defense (not prove, but certainly argue) that the drugs killed Floyd and not Chauvin. Given the video and the autopsies, simply bringing up the toxicology report might not be enough to convince a jury. They're going to repeatedly see images of a cop pressing his knee onto Floyd's neck for several minutes after he'd stopped breathing. The defense won't be able to point to those videos and say "you're watching a guy overdose on fentanyl." They're going to need to argue that Floyd would have dropped dead with or without Chauvin's intervention.
They just have to argue that the drugs could have killed him. Him saying he couldn’t breathe before ever going to the ground, the top screen showing massive amounts of fentanyl in his system, and the lungs being full of fluid make this a really tough case for the prosecution of emotions are left out, which is what is supposed to happen but we all know that isn’t how it works these days and that’s why the prosecution is parading kids in the court. It’s one thing to put a 17-year-old up there but a 9-year-old is shameful.
 
They just have to argue that the drugs could have killed him. Him saying he couldn’t breathe before ever going to the ground, the top screen showing massive amounts of fentanyl in his system, and the lungs being full of fluid make this a really tough case for the prosecution of emotions are left out, which is what is supposed to happen but we all know that isn’t how it works these days and that’s why the prosecution is parading kids in the court. It’s one thing to put a 17-year-old up there but a 9-year-old is shameful.

The 9-year-old was a witness. The prosecution has a high burden, and they would be wise to put forward every material witness.

Word to the wise: if you don't want a 9-year-old to testify at your murder trial, don't sit on top of a guy complaining that he can't breathe in front of a 9-year-old.
 
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None of us can speak to intent. But I absolutely think he wasn't worried about consequences and had little regard for Floyd's protests.
He was told there was no pulse and still stayed on his neck till the paramedics showed up.
 
There's also a ME's toxicology report that states emphatically a lethal dose of Fentanyl x3 was ingested. That would also explain the heart failure/asphyxia. The knee to the neck could be deadly if all the weight were exerted there but video shows weight on the knee on his back. It's easily argued that the knee on his neck was for restraint, not the full force of his weight.

If there is other physical evidence that the officer did suffocate him in sure it will come out. But as of now it appears just a likely, if not more likely. Two things, one is possible the other is indisputable, I will concede it is possible the officer did kill him, it is indisputable though that Floyd had injested a fatal dose of Fentanyl.

Is it possible Floyd was murdered, yes? Is it equally possible if not more possible he died of an overdose? Yes.

Reasonable doubt, unless more evidence comes to light.
An overdose looks nothing like what was on tape. The ME didn’t say it was an overdose, quit saying it was likely an OD cause it wasn’t.
 
The 9-year-old was a witness. The prosecution has a high burden, and they would be wise to put forward every material witness.

Word to the wise: if you don't want a 9-year-old to testify at your murder trial, don't sit on top of a guy complaining that he can't breathe in front of a 9-year-old.
Come on. They have plenty of witnesses. There’s video picking up the audio. The 9-yr-old was used to try and elicit emotions. Saying otherwise is ridiculous.
 
I agree manslaughter should be the charge.

But his willful disregard for what Floyd was openly pleading makes the “involuntary” part at least questionable. If somebody says they can’t breathe and you continue to do what you are doing, does that constitute intent to kill?

I honestly don’t know. I’m not a lawyer or expert. I think manslaughter fits, but I can see how a good lawyer can make the case for a more serious charge.

People who actually cannot breathe generally lack the air in their lungs necessary to say "I can't breathe".

The "knee hold" Chauvin was using was/is widely used to hold a larger, stronger, or actively resisting person on the ground. If done right, there is almost no pressure on the neck area. There are a couple of ways to do it: (1) The neck area is in the crook of the lower leg / ankle, and they only feel pressure if they try to raise their head, or (2) The knee is actually between the shoulder blades, and pressure is applied to keep them on the ground. Looking at the video, I cannot tell which technique was used. But much like the old lateral vascular restraint (LVR) popularized by LAPD to take down a combative subject, I think the days of using the technique Chauvin used are numbered, if not already over. It is what it is. Unless you've tried to control someone bigger and stronger than you who's hyped up on Meth, Crack, Coke, or whatever, then you have no idea what it's like to be in those shoes. I had a meth head who maybe went a buck-thirty soaking wet break everything in the bathroom of a single-wide trailer...with me. Trust me, it's a humbling experience.

George Floyd's death, while likely inevitable due to his Fentanyl level, is sad. He made bad choices, and in the end he paid the ultimate price for them. That his death occurred either in or at the hands of Derek Chauvin remains a subject of debate. The jury has a tough decision to make. I'm glad I'm not among them. If a guy jumps off a 300 ft cliff, his death is imminent. But if you shoot him halfway down, who is responsible for his death, him or you? In the end, does it really matter?

I've been where Chauvin was. No one died. But I've also called a squad for a guy we were going to arrest for assault, who went into cardiac arrest as a result of excited delirium due to the drugs in his system. Fortunately, he survived. And eventually went to jail. But I look at this case and ask myself what would have happened if our guy had coded out and not made it.

There but for the grace of God go I. So I'm left with trusting the jury to weigh the evidence, and make the right call. I figure it's 50/50 they get it right. I don't know what "right" is.

I'm just glad it's not me on trial.
 
Certainly interesting but even this person ignores that Floyd was saying he couldn’t breathe before he was ever taken to the ground. It’s possible that he would have died no matter what. Is it possible that’s not true? Sure, but it’s also possible that it is true and possible is all the defense needs. That’s true whether this was a cop or not, black, white, none of that matters. All that matters is the presumption of innocence until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. Even the ME report says drugs contributed. How much, who knows? I’m sure they’ll stick Chauvin with something no matter what though as there’s a lot of eyeballs on this one.
 
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Come on. They have plenty of witnesses. There’s video picking up the audio. The 9-yr-old was used to try and elicit emotions. Saying otherwise is ridiculous.

Show me a jury trial where either the prosecution or the defense made no attempt to appeal to emotion or illogic and I'll show you a case that that party lost. They aren't making a case to 12 lawyers and judges. They are making a case to 12 laypeople.

The law should be untethered from emotion. But good luck finding 12 sociopaths to judge the facts.
 
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