Derek Chauvin trial

#326
#326
bamawriter said:
Show me a jury trial where either the prosecution or the defense made no attempt to appeal to emotial or illogic and I'll show you a case that that party lost. They aren't making a case to 12 lawyers and judges. They are making a case to 12 laypeople.

The law should be untethered from emotion. But good luck finding 12 sociopaths to judge the facts.
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They can’t afford to be second guessed guilty, hung, or mistrial.
 
#327
#327
KB5252 said:
If he overdosed how could it be murder though? His lungs were full of fluid, that's not a result of asphyxiation froma knee on his neck, forget the fact that was what he was trained and instructed to do. The moment Floyd consumes the lethal dose of drugs his fate was sealed. And judging by the way he was calling for his dead mother I believe in some lucid moments of his delerium he was aware of what was coming. Tragic, but I'm not sure manslaughter is even appropriate here. Based on the ME report and toxicology report reasonable doubt is abundant in this case. Set aside your beliefs or anger and look at the facts in the case and this is loser for the prosecution.
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I wouldn’t be on that jury for a million bucks.
 
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#330
#330
Tastylicks said:
And yet Philando Castile was shot in front of his kids just for exercising his 2nd Amendment rights and there was no justice.

Same state as Floyd FYI, which is why there will be no justice here.
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And Tony Timpa had a situation almost identical to Floyd, only Timpa was the one who actually called the cops, yet you know nothing about it because Timpa wasn’t a POC.
 
#332
#332
bamawriter said:
Show me a jury trial where either the prosecution or the defense made no attempt to appeal to emotial or illogic and I'll show you a case that that party lost. They aren't making a case to 12 lawyers and judges. They are making a case to 12 laypeople.

The law should be untethered from emotion. But good luck finding 12 sociopaths to judge the facts.
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Yeah, I agree they all try to play on emotions but there’s a wide range between making decisions based on emotion and being a sociopath. I can look at the law and set aside feelings to make a decision based on the law of the land and so can plenty of others. People making emotional decisions are what’s driving nuclear verdicts in this country.
 
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#333
#333
Vol737 said:
Because manslaughter is one of the charges along with 3rd degree. The jury can drop it down to a manslaughter conviction. I posted the delineation between 3rd and manslaughter in a prior post. Minnesota is one of just a few states that has a 3rd degree murder charge and it more or less indicates intent to the extent that did Chauvin "know" the amount of pressure he was using could cause death. That's where I think things get blurred and that will be very difficult to determine.

Edit: LEO's chime in if I'm off here.
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It’s second degree manslaughter too. I believe that’s where they’ll end up on this. To me, that’s likely the max punishment on the table because I don’t see any way to 100% say Chauvin murdered Floyd. We shall see though.
 
#334
#334
hUTch2002 said:
It’s second degree manslaughter too. I believe that’s where they’ll end up on this. To me, that’s likely the max punishment on the table because I don’t see any way to 100% say Chauvin murdered Floyd. We shall see though.
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Thats what I would think under normal circumstances. With the trial not being moved, nothing will surprise me.
 
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#335
#335
bamawriter said:
Show me a jury trial where either the prosecution or the defense made no attempt to appeal to emotial or illogic and I'll show you a case that that party lost. They aren't making a case to 12 lawyers and judges. They are making a case to 12 laypeople.

The law should be untethered from emotion. But good luck finding 12 sociopaths to judge the facts.
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Yeah the defense will do the same thing. They will run a parade of old ladies that Chavlin helped cross the street once before this is over
 
#336
#336
He probably will be found guilty of manslaughter. That will not be enough to appease the mob. The National Guard had better be ready. Cities will burn, innocent stores and businesses will be looted and bystanders will be singled out and killed.

Shouldn't be allowed but the powers that be will see it as a pop off valve. Sad that we allow our streets to be taken by the lawless panderers feigning a hissie fit.
 
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#337
#337
Vol737 said:
Thats what I would think under normal circumstances. With the trial not being moved, nothing will surprise me.
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It still can be, judge hears risk of harm, declares mistrial and moved to Idaho
 
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#339
#339
KB5252 said:
I don't know, if they're elected my guess would be self preservation.

Mind you the officer could have and should done better. His training should have told him that a very apprehensive and agitated subject who admitted to taking drugs becoming calm and quiet was a bad sign. He's not guilty of murder, I'm not sure he's guilty of a crime at all but he could have done better.
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It's been months since I've watched the video and I don't particularly care to rewatch it.

I could have sworn GF denied being on drugs? Are you certain he admitted it beyond the very common prison/criminal slang 'hooping'?

I would think GF admitting to being on drugs would help the prosecution.

I don't think Chauvin is guilty regardless of how GF possibly admitting being high effects the case, but I think GF used "hooping" as slang was as close as GF came to admitting to being high.

Before the toxicology reports came out I suggested (from years of working with guys in the drug and alcohol recovery community, many ex cons... ) that by saying he'd been "hooping", GF was telling Chauvin he had stuffed his drugs. Ktown and a few other knuckleheads lambasted me......
 
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#340
#340
MemphisVol77 said:
It's been months since I've watched the video and I don't particularly care to rewatch it.

I could have sworn GF denied being on drugs? Are you certain he admitted it beyond the very common prison/criminal slang 'hooping'?

I would think GF admitting to being on drugs would help the prosecution.

I don't think Chauvin is guilty regardless of how GF possibly admitting being high effects the case, but I think GF used "hooping" as slang was as close as GF came to admitting to being high.

Before the toxicology reports came out I suggested (from years of working with guys in the drug and alcohol recovery community, many ex cons... ) that by saying he'd been "hooping", GF was telling Chauvin he had stuffed his drugs. Ktown and a few other knuckleheads lambasted me......
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George Floyd never admitted to being on drugs (he was asked repeatedly but never said anything except "I'm not that kind of guy). The friends in the car said he's on something and disassociated themselves.
 
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#342
#342
lawgator1 said:
I don't know if there were motions filed ahead of time and ruled upon already, but I am very surprised by the extent to which the State is being allowed to talk about such things as what kind of guy Floyd was in eyes of family and friends, allowing the paramedic who testified early on who was off duty at time allowed to testify wearing her uniform, and similar such things.
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For either side, what kind of man Floyd was, good or bad, is irrelevant. This kind of crap is what’s driving verdicts up in our country. I see it all the time with large truck accidents. Attorneys don’t argue the facts of what happened, they argue that the big bad trucking company killed this poor family person and so they need to pay, never mind that the poor family person was drunk, crossed center, and slammed into the truck that was steady in their lane and not speeding. That CDL driver should have seen it coming and/or the truck shouldn’t have been there.
 
#343
#343
rjd970 said:
I agree manslaughter should be the charge.

But his willful disregard for what Floyd was openly pleading makes the “involuntary” part at least questionable. If somebody says they can’t breathe and you continue to do what you are doing, does that constitute intent to kill?

I honestly don’t know. I’m not a lawyer or expert. I think manslaughter fits, but I can see how a good lawyer can make the case for a more serious charge.
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It’s a fair point but he was saying that when he was sitting upright. The cops didn’t know he had just ingested a ton of drugs. To them it probably came across as the typical resistance and someone being uncooperative they get often from someone being arrested. People say all kinds of things to try and manipulate the cops in moments like that. Had he cooperated and then suddenly started saying it when on the ground then I have to think the cop’s reaction to it would have been different. Then again, had Floyd cooperated I’m guessing he wouldn’t have ever been on the ground. Sadly, we will never know what the cop would’ve done in the scenario I describe. This really does suck in about every way possible and no one comes out of this a winner regardless of the outcome.
 
#344
#344
Tastylicks said:
Yeah the defense will do the same thing. They will run a parade of old ladies that Chavlin helped cross the street once before this is over
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You’re right and it’s all irrelevant to what happened but I guess the prosecution wants to make Chauvin put to be some murderous racist and the defense wants to make him out to be a choir boy, neither of which are likely.
 
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#347
#347
hUTch2002 said:
You’re right and it’s all irrelevant to what happened but I guess the prosecution wants to make Chauvin put to be some murderous racist and the defense wants to make him out to be a choir boy, neither of which are likely.
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Its the fickle nature of the American justice system. Flawed big time
 
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#350
#350
Septic said:
Poor life choices don't compress a larynx.
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His larynx and hyoid were intact. No evidence of compression like petechial hemorrhaging or bruising in the neck and upper back. His injuries were superficial on his face. He was a walking dead man the minute he swallowed the drugs. Did you read the autopsy report septic?
 
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