Do you take Gruden at $50m over 10 years?

#153
#153
AmoebaVol said:
Look, nobody's a slam dunk hire. But if we put up the money for a proven coach like Gruden and things don't work out, AT LEAST it's not because we decided to be cheap and go with the discount option.

I'd pay the man and see what he can do. Bama didn't go cheap and hire a nobody like Dooley.
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This. There are no sure things in life. It's about hiring the best guy you can and giving yourself the best chance to win. In my mind that's Gruden.
 
#154
#154
10 years for someone who has never been a collegiate coach (though a Superbowl winning NFL coach) is better than the one we have now who also had no years as a head coach at ANY level.

If you want to turn around the program big time pony up and pay it. Recruiting would be phenomenal. Not to mention when Peyton retires he'll come on over as OC/QB coach :D.
 
#155
#155
Yes, if he can come in and have Fulmer to better type success he is worth it.

Initially I would have contract more incentive based though with big bonuses for BCS bowls, SEC championships and Nat'l Championships.
 
#156
#156
99gator said:
My point with regard to gruden is that i believe you get the best college coach out there.

Gruden is a pro guy and they are different games.

No one questions the mind of spurrier, saban or petrino and they failed in the pro game.

No one questions the mind of charlie weis or mike sherman and they failed in the college game.
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remind me again how many Superbowl wins Weis and Sherman have as head coaches??

For UT, at this point, you get the best coach that will excite the fanbase and pull in recruits. Gruden is that guy.
 
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#157
#157
shelbyvillevol said:
We probably couldn't sign him for less than that, and I'm fine with it. I think it's an investment that will pay immediate dividends for the program and the University. Tickets, concessions, and merchandise sales would receive a HUGE boost if we hired Gruden.
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Oh it would be unreal...The school would make an enormous profit...Just selling orange and white Chucky dolls alone would pay his salary.....Of course they would have to get permission to use the image :glare:
 
#159
#159
oregonvol said:
Don't know what your argument here is. Maybe Petrino has a more diverse offensive philosophy than Gruden? Okay, but Gruden has found a way to win football games and win more important football games with diverse personnel. I have faith that Gruden could figure out how to attack a quality defense, like a Saban defense, and win. Not get blown out like Petrino always did. And that's what it comes down to, who can actually win big games.
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My argument is that the WCO purists have been so committed to what they run, that they refuse to budge. Callahan, Walsh, Denny Green, Embree, some others all fell into that same trap.

If you seriously expect to come to college and give them 7-8 protections (22/23, 23/24, 76/77, 2/3 Jet, 200/300 Jet, Fox 2/3, H 2/3...could keep going) with play calls that sound like something off of a Denny's menu (Green Right Slot F Right H Up 200 Jet Lion Stick H Deep CB) you're doomed to fail. There isn't enough time to work with kids to get something meticulous installed and repeated. Now, I could be totally wrong here, he could make everything 10 x easier, but I'm just throwing out a valid point that these guys believe deep down in their heart that their system is schematically advantaged over normal, college schemes.

Petrino also had fine defenses with Cassity in relation to talent and is proven on this level.

Hell, ask Tampa fans about what he did after the SB, some wouldn't be so pleased. That isn't to say that his ownership wasn't terrible and he had some gutted teams, there is no denying that, but he didn't win one playoff game after 02.
 
#160
#160
99gator said:
He developed nothing in oakland and tampa. The players he coached on offense were 137 years old.

I dont think he had a qb who was less than a 10 year veteran
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The head coach has very little input on who the owners want to draft and sign...Gruden did what he could do with the hand delt to him...It's common knowledge the Glazers are one of the toughest owners to deal with.
 
#161
#161
I'm okay with giving him the amount of money and guarantee on 10 years. I can even understand why he is asking for the guarantee on time, he was traded and then fired from his last two gigs and we dumped a NC winning coach as well as the rebuilder we selected. I would ask for a long term guarantee as well.

On our side, I'm hoping we are pushing for some distinct performance goals--i.e. 2nd place in the SECE by next year, playing in the SEC Championship by 2015, BCS bowls by 2015 etc. Without these performance guarantees then all the money is for naught.
 
#162
#162
VOLnMiami said:
The head coach has very little input on who the owners want to draft and sign...Gruden did what he could do with the hand delt to him...It's common knowledge the Glazers are one of the toughest owners to deal with.
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I can guarantee you that Shanahan or Belichick have 100% control on who they draft or sign.
 
#163
#163
VOLnMiami said:
The head coach has very little input on who the owners want to draft and sign...Gruden did what he could do with the hand delt to him...It's common knowledge the Glazers are one of the toughest owners to deal with.
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I understand.

I will just say this. Gruden is a good coach. He's not god's gift to coaching and has not been in the college game for over 20 years.

Just because he has a cool nickname, is likeable and is great on tv does not make him the best candidate.

I think if Tennessee is willing to shell out this kind of money, they can do better
 
#165
#165
99gator said:
I understand.

I will just say this. Gruden is a good coach. He's not god's gift to coaching and has not been in the college game for over 20 years.

Just because he has a cool nickname, is likeable and is great on tv does not make him the best candidate.

I think if Tennessee is willing to shell out this kind of money, they can do better
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Who would be better?
 
#167
#167
bam15 said:
My argument is that the WCO purists have been so committed to what they run, that they refuse to budge. Callahan, Walsh, Denny Green, Embree, some others all fell into that same trap.

If you seriously expect to come to college and give them 7-8 protections (22/23, 23/24, 76/77, 2/3 Jet, 200/300 Jet, Fox 2/3, H 2/3...could keep going) with play calls that sound like something off of a Denny's menu (Green Right Slot F Right H Up 200 Jet Lion Stick H Deep CB) you're doomed to fail. There isn't enough time to work with kids to get something meticulous installed and repeated. Now, I could be totally wrong here, he could make everything 10 x easier, but I'm just throwing out a valid point that these guys believe deep down in their heart that their system is schematically advantaged over normal, college schemes.

Petrino also had fine defenses with Cassity in relation to talent and is proven on this level.

Hell, ask Tampa fans about what he did after the SB, some wouldn't be so pleased. That isn't to say that his ownership wasn't terrible and he had some gutted teams, there is no denying that, but he didn't win one playoff game after 02.
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Chip Kelly offered Gruden the OC job at Oregon. Obviously Kelly wasn't going to run a standard WC. Gruden has spent some time at camps with Kelly too. Makes me think he's adaptable to new styles of offense.

I am a Tampa fan. Lived in Florida during the Dungy era, right up to the Gruden era. Gruden did a great job getting the team over the hump in the big games. He got it with a salary cap nightmare right afterward (which everyone knew was coming and was why Parcells didn't take the job). He did a a solid job after that, but he never really had good offensive personnel. Maybe it's partially his fault for not coaching them up, but he wasn't the GM, so he can't take all of the blame for the personnel issues.
 
#168
#168
99gator said:
I understand.

I will just say this. Gruden is a good coach. He's not god's gift to coaching and has not been in the college game for over 20 years.

Just because he has a cool nickname, is likeable and is great on tv does not make him the best candidate.

I think if Tennessee is willing to shell out this kind of money, they can do better
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Fairly accurate.

The best part about hiring him would be the instant name recognition. Everyone has heard of him, his demeanor, QB show, MNF, etc. That is what sets him apart along with the SB. No other candidate could do that.

I've already expressed my doubts in this thread about him, and I'm not his biggest fan, but he has things that no one else could match.
 
#170
#170
VOLnMiami said:
Believe me, It goes through the owners FIRST...They pay the bills.
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Belichick can literally do whatever he pleases. There is only one instance that I can recall that he was really forced to do anything and that was trading Seymour. And I'm not even sure on that. I'm not arguing that some owners are easier to work with than others, that is entirely accurate. But, some coaches earn their stripes to make the majority if not all of the decisions regarding the team.
 
#171
#171
phowell23 said:
The thing is if these reports are correct, he isn't asking an outrageous number for his pay. Saban and Mack Brown (Texas) make more than that annually and if Saban stays at Alabama for the next 10 years he'll be making much more when all things are said and done.

However, he's asking a ton of money for assistants. This would secure a high caliber OC and a high caliber DC. You think we are going to get Ron Zook as DC for less than $1 million per year? Not only that, but you can secure some high caliber LB, OL, DL, DB, Special Team coaches as well. There shouldn't be a weak coach here with that type of money.
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But...but... that does not leave any money to buy the players! :) Auburn proved that works!
 
#172
#172
oregonvol said:
Chip Kelly offered Gruden the OC job at Oregon. Obviously Kelly wasn't going to run a standard WC. Gruden has spent some time at camps with Kelly too. Makes me think he's adaptable to new styles of offense.

I am a Tampa fan. Lived in Florida during the Dungy era, right up to the Gruden era. Gruden did a great job getting the team over the hump in the big games. He got it with a salary cap nightmare right afterward (which everyone knew was coming and was why Parcells didn't take the job). He did a a solid job after that, but he never really had good offensive personnel. Maybe it's partially his fault for not coaching them up, but he wasn't the GM, so he can't take all of the blame for the personnel issues.
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just thought this article was relevant

Rose Bowl: Jon Gruden, the almost-Duck, visits Chip Kelly | OregonLive.com

"When I got fired from football, I wanted to learn about football, and it started with Oregon,'' Gruden said. "I wanted to learn the spread option, and Chip Kelly was nice enough to come down (to Florida) and spend a week with me.''

That was in February, a month after Tampa Bay fired Gruden. The Bellotti-to-Kelly succession plan was announced a month after that. Around that time, Kelly called Gruden and asked if he wanted to be his offensive coordinator with the Ducks.

"There's some truth to that,'' Gruden said. "When I got fired, I opened up an office. I called it the FFCA, the fired football coaches of America, and I was really excited about learning some things I didn't know anything about, and one of them was the spread offense. I started with Oregon because I have a lot of respect for what they've done.''

"A couple weeks later he called me up and said, 'Look, how 'bout you come out here, spend a year with us, learning the spread. I almost did it. My wife wasn't real fired up about me jumping back into coaching, but yeah, there's some truth to that.''

When Kelly and Gruden sat down and talked spread, they went over the cutups and the theories behind them and "went through a lot of grease pens.'' Gruden was amazed that Kelly never huddled and always used the shotgun, even when backed up to his goal line.
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#173
#173
All I know is if it ever gets out that gruden wanted to come here but we wouldn't pay him I will seriously question the unversities commitment to winning an look for the nearest bridge to jump off of.
 
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#174
#174
oregonvol said:
Chip Kelly offered Gruden the OC job at Oregon. Obviously Kelly wasn't going to run a standard WC. Gruden has spent some time at camps with Kelly too. Makes me think he's adaptable to new styles of offense.

I am a Tampa fan. Lived in Florida during the Dungy era, right up to the Gruden era. Gruden did a great job getting the team over the hump in the big games. He got it with a salary cap nightmare right afterward (which everyone knew was coming and was why Parcells didn't take the job). He did a a solid job after that, but he never really had good offensive personnel. Maybe it's partially his fault for not coaching them up, but he wasn't the GM, so he can't take all of the blame for the personnel issues.
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Yeah, I'm aware and one would think so I agree. And I'm not even saying the WCO is flawed, it isn't. Most of the NFL run the same concepts. The problem lies within the ridiculous verbiage and gameplanning/installing that simply isn't cut-out for the college game. It is too demanding and time-consuming. I wouldn't necessarily agree with the big-games argument, because he didn't win a single playoff game after 2002. I've already mentioned the ownership and gutted team part, but that is still the record and it isn't changing any day soon.
 
#175
#175
Why isn't there more talk about Butch Davis? I understand the issues at UNC, but he's proven to be able to build programs, has a defensive background, was named as UM coach to rebuild reputation in addition to W-L record, and should be able to recruit in the Carolinas.
 
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