Electric Vehicles

[UT-Rex]

In general, I can't really think of any real negatives for either gasoline or electricity << charging stations / home power chargers and fuel stations are quite plentiful in most populated areas and the costs for each type of typical vehicle is reasonable (ample price ranges / new and used for most consumers // both ice and EV public transportion is ample).

As for ready-to-buy-hydrogen, on the other hand, there are very very few filling stations in this country.

Hydrogen fuel cell EVs solve all the 800lb gorilla in the room issues. They use the same BEV final electric drive. They self charge and don’t tax the power grid. Power sea water electrolysis stations from the new micro scale graphite nuke reactors. Completely zero emissions from start to end.

 

[UT-Rex]

There are huge issues on gasoline long term. And you don’t think on electricity generation. At all. That is abundantly clear.

In what relevant ways have I expressly not thought about it ? I think the Utilities are thinking about it too --

"You can charge at home and it’s inexpensive and convenient. Electric car charging is the same as the standard residential electric rate, which varies but is typically less than fuel costs. Two types of residential EV chargers are in market, and you can choose which works best based on your car model and lifestyle."

EV Charging at Home - Duke Energy (duke-energy.com)

 

[NorthDallas40]

more disingenuous stuff

So you attack the hydrogen position today while ignoring the BEV issues long term on both lithium mining as well as power grid capacity. Thank you for another wonderful example of your disingenuous stance’s and hypocrisy

 

[NorthDallas40]

In what relevant ways have I expressly not thought about it ?

"You can charge at home and it’s inexpensive and convenient. Electric car charging is the same as the standard residential electric rate, which varies but is typically less than fuel costs. Two types of residential EV chargers are in market, and you can choose which works best based on your car model and lifestyle."

EV Charging at Home - Duke Energy (duke-energy.com)

You ignore the power generation source as well as its burden on the power grid as BEV vehicles take on a more percentage of vehicles on the road. In macro terms those BEVs are being charged by fossil fuels in majority cases. Yet another wonderful example

 

[NorthDallas40]

Hypocritical claims ? In our family, a member has a level 2 charger at their house / the charging is simple / the car is recharged at night time / JD Powers claimed one of the automakers has a lifetime battery (I've not confirmed that) / hydrogen gas is more $ per gal than the cost of standard gasoline (and > than the typical current price equivalent of electricity).

Back on this. No you actually used it to attack JD Power as a reputable source. You clearly implied the warranty claim was false using me pointing out the author used dated info on that one point. And you’re lying here in misrepresenting that.

 

[UT-Rex]

There are huge issues on gasoline long term. And you don’t think on electricity generation. At all. That is abundantly clear.

I have a theory -- it's just theory still -- that you are simply over-speculating on the possible hypothetical negative --

"Time is the key to understanding this problem, Rothman says, because although the natural carbon cycle balances itself, it does so over exceedingly long timescales. For example, consider one part of the natural carbon cycle: how fossil fuels are created and released. Hydrothermal vents on the seafloor provide the carbon that—via heat, pressure, and other forces below the planet’s surface—is pressed into fossil fuels such as oil and gas. Over thousands or millions of years, the creeping movement of our planet’s tectonic plates brings those fossil fuels back to the Earth’s surface and slowly emits the CO2 into the air. But mining those fossil fuels and then burning them in cars or factories shortcuts nature’s method. “That full [natural] process would eventually bring it all up—but very slowly,” Rothman says. “What we're doing with taking oil and gas out of the ground is essentially speeding up the natural process.”
How much carbon dioxide does the Earth naturally absorb? | MIT Climate Portal

^^ that process is expressly describing / speaking about "surface" emission, VS the consideration of the potential abundant sub-surface, ever-producing deposits (think about it).

My second theory (based on certain written evidence and faith), is that ^ said process does not require "millions" of years, and well fewer than "thousands" (more like, continually every day at various locations around the globe).

^^ Sure, you can doubt each theory (but I'm offering it for thought in context of your claim).

 

[NorthDallas40]

I have a theory -- it's just theory still -- that you are simply over-speculating on the negative --

"Time is the key to understanding this problem, <snip>.

Didn’t actually read after that. Because you just gave me yet another wonderful example of your hypocrisy in how you attacked hydrogen access today and then a couple of posts later emphasize time as the key.

And I’m 100% convinced you’ve gone all in on the positives of BEVs while ignoring their well documented negatives.

My primary concern on gas vehicles is air quality in high density urban areas. I’m not a climate change activist

 

[UT-Rex]

Didn’t actually read after that. Because you just gave me yet another wonderful example of your hypocrisy in how you attacked hydrogen access today and then a couple of posts later emphasize time as the key.

And I’m 100% convinced you’ve gone all in on the positives of BEVs while ignoring their well documented negatives.

My primary concern on gas vehicles is air quality in high density urban areas. I’m not a climate change activist

What you call "attacted" I refer to, quite simply, as discussion --

e.g. the cost of hydrogen is > that of gasoline and electricity kWh (<< where higher cost absolutely does not "solve all the 8000lb gorilla in the room issues" of this issue (hydrogen VS elect VS gasoline).

Hydrogen fuel cell EVs solve all the 800lb gorilla in the room issues. They use the same BEV final electric drive. They self charge and don’t tax the power grid. Power sea water electrolysis stations from the new micro scale graphite nuke reactors. Completely zero emissions from start to end.

"To quote the California Hydrogen Business Council, “Currently, a kilogram of hydrogen costs between $10 and $17 at California hydrogen stations, which equals about $5 to $8.50 per gallon of gasoline” to cover the same distance."

PUBLISHED: SEP 26, 2022
Hydrogen Cars: Everything You Need To Know (caranddriver.com)

 

[UT-Rex]

Didn’t actually read after that. Because you just gave me yet another wonderful example of your hypocrisy in how you attacked hydrogen access today and then a couple of posts later emphasize time as the key.

And I’m 100% convinced you’ve gone all in on the positives of BEVs while ignoring their well documented negatives.

My primary concern on gas vehicles is air quality in high density urban areas. I’m not a climate change activist

hydrogen gas / production of (even if carbon is aplenty, as my theory says) is $> than gas-oline and elect

you need to take a closer inspection of gorilla

Hydrogen fuel cell EVs solve all the 800lb gorilla in the room issues. They use the same BEV final electric drive. They self charge and don’t tax the power grid. Power sea water electrolysis stations from the new micro scale graphite nuke reactors. Completely zero emissions from start to end.

 

[NorthDallas40]

What you call "attacted" I refer to, quite simply, as discussion --

e.g. the cost of hydrogen is > that of gasoline and electricity kWh (<< where higher cost absolutely does not "solve all the 8000lb gorilla in the room issues" of this issue (hydrogen VS elect VS gasoline).




"To quote the California Hydrogen Business Council, “Currently, a kilogram of hydrogen costs between $10 and $17 at California hydrogen stations, which equals about $5 to $8.50 per gallon of gasoline” to cover the same distance."

PUBLISHED: SEP 26, 2022
Hydrogen Cars: Everything You Need To Know (caranddriver.com)

Did you really bold my spelling of attacked and then use double quoted “attacted” Ronald?

And thank you again for attacking today’s costs and production methods while you routinely use future expectations to support your own marketing hype

 

[NorthDallas40]

hydrogen gas / production of (even if carbon is aplenty, as my theory says) is $> than gas-oline and elect

you need to take a closer inspection of gorilla

My inspection of the gorilla was just fine Ronald. I clearly pointed to current prototypes for both power generation and sea water electrolysis to address it.

You need to wedge your hypocrite disingenuous head further up your ass on your stances I’d recommend.

 

[kiddiedoc]

I really can't believe this is such a crazy debate. I'm a pretty smart guy with a decent amount of common sense, and I settled on my position in like one hour of research and a test drive.

EVs aren't for everyone. They have significant limitations, primarily in long range travel. They have huge upsides, as well, including fuel/ maintenance savings, performance, and software features. Much of the "dangers" and drawbacks (like weight) are easily debunked with a little digging.

 

[kiddiedoc]

Oh, and I don't think the government should be able to mandate ****, including the car people choose to drive.

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

A good article about taking a trip in an EV. Article written by an Australian & the outback.
Deals w/long road trips in an EV & constantly searching for charging stations & not dying.

Warren Brown: Why Taking A Roadtrip In A Tesla Revealed The Limitations Of Electric Vehicles | Thrive50Plus Magazine

 

[kiddiedoc]

A good article about taking a trip in an EV. Article written by an Australian & the outback.
Deals w/long road trips in an EV & consty searching for charging stations & not dying.

Warren Brown: Why Taking A Roadtrip In A Tesla Revealed The Limitations Of Electric Vehicles | Thrive50Plus Magazine

I don't understand why people feel the need to take trips like this to prove what should be really easy to comprehend.

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

I don't understand why people feel the need to take trips like this to prove what should be really easy to comprehend.

Exactly. He says in the article that if you come up on a detour section that's not to be expected & then having to go extra miles around it on "limp mode" you're screwed.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I really can't believe this is such a crazy debate. I'm a pretty smart guy with a decent amount of common sense, and I settled on my position in like one hour of research and a test drive.

EVs aren't for everyone. They have significant limitations, primarily in long range travel. They have huge upsides, as well, including fuel/ maintenance savings, performance, and software features. Much of the "dangers" and drawbacks (like weight) are easily debunked with a little digging.

And I’ve acknowledged your own case and analysis and agree with your conclusion. I’ve not attacked any of your stances too much I think. But I’ll do it now on the weight. It is a major issue for many of the designs. Not your Tesla as it was a ground up BEV design. Likely not for @gcbvol ’s Rivian either I’d guess admittedly I haven’t looked at that design as much but it’s a ground up BEV design so I think it should be close. But look at the idiots at GMC taking 6000+ lb vehicles and putting 2000 lb battery packs in them. It’s just physics as they scale up the designs to feed Americans lust for SUVs these vehicles are gonna get more portly which impacts range… which impacts the need for bigger batteries…

The only foreseeable approach to address it while staying pure BEV that I can see are the solid state Lithium batteries but it’s gonna take a while more to get them cost competitive. That will also to a degree address the volatility of the Li-ion batteries as the lithium is not as readily reactive in the solid state batteries I believe.

I’ve said all along it’s a life style choice. It’s far from a slam dunk. Personally I think they are intellectually lazy when you factor in the power generation and distribution to recharge them. I know there are better solutions to pursue long term.

You also said that today at least owning an ICE and BEV vehicle keeps flexibility. Again completely agree. And I also agree on the technology state of BEVs as compared to the average ICE vehicle. But then I look at the technology in my wife’s 2021 Lexus RX and that margin thins considerably. It’s just as web and app accessible as the BEVs.

 

[NorthDallas40]

I don't understand why people feel the need to take trips like this to prove what should be really easy to comprehend.

I posted a link of the CEO of Ford taking their BEV F150 on a trip and reinforcing what everyone knows. So yeah we both see it. And that CEO is a marketing moron.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Oh, and I don't think the government should be able to mandate ****, including the car people choose to drive.

The fear I have on government is they will drive the infrastructure development to support whatever is chosen. I personally think that should be hydrogen generation and distribution. Not level 3 chargers forcing unnecessary burden on an already taxed power grid.

 

[Orangeburst]

Oh, and I don't think the government should be able to mandate ****, including the car people choose to drive.

my biggest and really only issue…let it happen naturally. Providing a timeline is an economic disaster

 

[NorthDallas40]

my biggest and really only issue…let it happen naturally. Providing a timeline is an economic disaster

Or I’d state another way don’t let the government pick winners and losers. They’re gonna put money into technology development. It’s what the gov does. Just do it on an equal footing for the similar competing technologies is all or don’t do it at all.

 

[kiddiedoc]

my biggest and really only issue…let it happen naturally. Providing a timeline is an economic disaster

If they work as advertised, like any commodity, they will sell themselves. Worked on me. 12 months ago, I thought they were a passing gimmick. Several friends/reports and some reading opened my mind. Now, I think it's the best car purchase I've ever made.

 

[NorthDallas40]

If they work as advertised, like any commodity, they will sell themselves. Worked on me. 12 months ago, I thought they were a passing gimmick. Several friends/reports and some reading opened my mind. Now, I think it's the best car purchase I've ever made.

That’s great if it fits you. In my case I need a light truck/SUV for my needs. Hauling my boat and other stuff and traveling. I have yet to see a vehicle in my segment of interest I’d ever consider owning. For a short range day driver with performance interest it’s a much better fit.

What was MSRP on yours $54k? And what is the BEV Fed tax break on that car currently? And I’m just wondering for my own curiosity as I’d guess for you it was just found money and likely didn’t influence your decision.

 

[Orangeburst]

If they work as advertised, like any commodity, they will sell themselves. Worked on me. 12 months ago, I thought they were a passing gimmick. Several friends/reports and some reading opened my mind. Now, I think it's the best car purchase I've ever made.

the middle class has been squeezed like a lemon…not Led Zep style. the poor are going to be in trouble, multi family housing, grid capacity, charging..too much in too little time,

 

[Orangeburst]

If they work as advertised, like any commodity, they will sell themselves. Worked on me. 12 months ago, I thought they were a passing gimmick. Several friends/reports and some reading opened my mind. Now, I think it's the best car purchase I've ever made.

btw..how is the sound system..I used to have a Monsoon in my Jetta..it was so loud and badass
My Honda is meh

and yes I still rock like a teenager