Electric Vehicles

#2,676
#2,676
NorthDallas40 said:
I completely misinterpreted SMR when I read on this in one article. I thought they were referring to the new small modular reactor nukes of which several designs are in various stages of testing and prototyping. Yeah they’re referring to the dominant production method in use today which of course is fossil fuel powered. I posted an IEEE Spectrum link to a sea water electrolysis method which is in more advanced prototyping now and shows a great deal of process. There is hope on using water electrolysis to generate oxygen and hydrogen however fresh water isn’t necessarily an abundant resource and creates other issues. Sea water is the most abundant raw material on the planet and is renewable however.
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I suppose sea water desalinated and perhaps deionized works pretty well as feed for hydrolysis equipment designed for fresh water.
 
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#2,678
#2,678
NorthDallas40 said:
They’ve got some high tech composite gas tanks to store it on vehicle and the literature thus far has indicated they pose no more a risk than any other fuel storage medium. I posted a link at one point in here on them.
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they are not sealed and idiots have to charge them
 
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#2,680
#2,680
Orangeburst said:
they are not sealed and idiots have to charge them
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Oh I am guessing any consumer charging station will be at least idiot proof for the current known level of idiots 😂 I’d guess it’s a solvable problem. No they aren’t sealed but they are apparently reinforced and have passed a battery of crash safety tests.
 
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#2,682
#2,682
NorthDallas40 said:
Oh I am guessing any consumer charging station will be at least idiot proof for the current known level of idiots 😂 I’d guess it’s a solvable problem. No they aren’t sealed but they are apparently reinforced and have passed a battery of crash safety tests.
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sorry..but i wouldn’t drive with a bomb under me..
that sub probably had a similar force on it and it was carbon fiber and not crashing into sharp objects
 
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#2,683
#2,683
Orangeburst said:
sorry..but i wouldn’t drive with a bomb under me..
that sub probably had a similar force on it and it was carbon fiber and not crashing into sharp objects
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To each their own. The tanks are designed for 700 BAR and that’s a common working pressure in many industries 🤷‍♂️
 
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#2,685
#2,685
NorthDallas40 said:
No that’s just it. The prototype operates on raw sea water not requiring desalination. I think this is the link I found before.

Seawater-to-Hydrogen Tech Makes a New, Blue H2
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Interesting, but makes you wonder where the salts dissolved in the seawater go. The other part is the membranes and the salts which makes you wonder if the 130 days without "failure" means 130 days without maintenance - like scheduled membrane replacement or salt removal. There's also no mention of cost of materials that you might think would need replacing vs the value of the hydrogen collected.

I do think there is certainly value in using solar energy (completely disconnected from the power grid) to run operations like "hydrogen distilling" (my term), but there's still a need to show that the production and responsible disposal of solar panels, wind generators, and consumables make the process viable. One of the things we learned with nuclear power is that operations and maintenance costs were far higher than initially anticipated ... and nuclear fuel cartels drove the fuel costs well beyond projections. Westinghouse when sued for participation in the fuel scam developed a fantastic marketing scheme. The "refunds" became "rebates" used to purchase new W equipment.
 
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#2,686
#2,686
AM64 said:
Interesting, but makes you wonder where the salts dissolved in the seawater go. The other part is the membranes and the salts which makes you wonder if the 130 days without "failure" means 130 days without maintenance - like scheduled membrane replacement or salt removal. There's also no mention of cost of materials that you might think would need replacing vs the value of the hydrogen collected.

I do think there is certainly value in using solar energy (completely disconnected from the power grid) to run operations like "hydrogen distilling" (my term), but there's still a need to show that the production and responsible disposal of solar panels, wind generators, and consumables make the process viable. One of the things we learned with nuclear power is that operations and maintenance costs were far higher than initially anticipated ... and nuclear fuel cartels drove the fuel costs well beyond projections. Westinghouse when sued for participation in the fuel scam developed a fantastic marketing scheme. The "refunds" became "rebates" used to purchase new W equipment.
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Is Westinghouse nuclear still around?
 
#2,687
#2,687
NorthDallas40 said:
To each their own. The tanks are designed for 700 BAR and that’s a common working pressure in many industries 🤷‍♂️
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OB has a point, though. Most plant equipment isn't subject to road crashes and generally not to motion induced fatigue during the useful lifetime.
 
#2,688
#2,688
AM64 said:
OB has a point, though. Most plant equipment isn't subject to road crashes and generally not to motion induced fatigue during the useful lifetime.
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NG vehicles have been on the road for a couple of decades. I believe they are around half the working pressure of these tanks 350 vs 700 BAR. The safety of the tanks has been studied and tested. Again I think it’s a solvable problem. Here is a DOE paper on it.

High-Pressure Hydrogen Tank Testing.

My concern would be crash safety. We know how to specify and build pressure vessels for a variety of environments but crash safety revolves around testing to the known and then extrapolating and testing to the expectations.
 
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#2,689
#2,689
Orangeburst said:
Is Westinghouse nuclear still around?
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Apparently in some form. I haven't kept up much with the industry. My old company Babcock and Wilcox is now the BWX and BWXT with manufacturing facilities (commercial and naval) still in OH. Looks like the nuclear HQ is still in Lynchburg, VA. I picked B&W as much for the location (Lynchburg) as anything - wasn't really interested in San Jose, CA (GE), and definitely not Pittsburg or Windsor Locks, CT for W and Combustion.
 
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#2,690
#2,690
NorthDallas40 said:
NG vehicles have been on the road for a couple of decades. I believe they are around half the working pressure of these tanks 350 vs 700 BAR. The safety of the tanks has been studied and tested. Again I think it’s a solvable problem. Here is a DOE paper on it.

High-Pressure Hydrogen Tank Testing.

My concern would be crash safety. We know how to specify and build pressure vessels for a variety of environments but crash safety revolves around testing to the known and then extrapolating and testing to the expectations.
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My background would be to design to be demolished by a train and then figure an accident with a car or semi are probably survivable. If the NRC got into the act, the design basis would be a car stalled at a RR crossing demolished in a head on collision of two speeding trains.
 
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#2,691
#2,691
AM64 said:
My background would be to design to be demolished by a train and then figure an accident with a car or semi are probably survivable. If the NRC got into the act, the design basis would be a car stalled at a RR crossing demolished in a head on collision of two speeding trains.
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how would you charge such a high pressure system with a nozzle that must be removable and perfectly sealed and idiot proof?

those tanks and PRV, safety mechanisms, regulators, as well as interface devices would have to be periodically inspected and pressure tested
 
#2,692
#2,692
Orangeburst said:
how would you charge such a high pressure system with a nozzle that must be removable and perfectly sealed and idiot proof?

those tanks and PRV, safety mechanisms, regulators, as well as interface devices would have to be periodically inspected and pressure tested
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I definitely don't have an answer for that, but I have all the confidence in the world that the government can come up with a system as simple, foolproof, and easy to use as the new gas cans.
 
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#2,693
#2,693
AM64 said:
I definitely don't have an answer for that, but I have all the confidence in the world that the government can come up with a system as simple, foolproof, and easy to use as the new gas cans.
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I purposely purchased one of those new gas cans for my motorcycle gas about 20 years ago. Twist and push in and turn upside down to pour while keeping the nozzle in a release position.. dang had to have a technique. poc
 
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#2,694
#2,694
I’ve never heard of a HFC car exploding during fueling or at any other time.

It’s also my understanding that you never get to actually own one (Mirai, Honda FC Clarity, etc) All of them are leased.
 
#2,695
#2,695
Orangeburst said:
how would you charge such a high pressure system with a nozzle that must be removable and perfectly sealed and idiot proof?

those tanks and PRV, safety mechanisms, regulators, as well as interface devices would have to be periodically inspected and pressure tested
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Here is one supplier of the nozzles. I know they’ve been in use since at least 2014 in CA as the Toyota Miria has been available in CA since then. I haven’t ever heard of one having a fire but they of course doesn’t mean it hadn’t happened.

Hydrogen Refueling Components - H2 Car Dispensers
 
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#2,696
#2,696
NorthDallas40 said:
Here is one supplier of the nozzles. I know they’ve been in use since at least 2014 in CA as the Toyota Miria has been available in CA since then. I haven’t ever heard of one having a fire but they of course doesn’t mean it hadn’t happened.

Hydrogen Refueling Components - H2 Car Dispensers
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i am mostly being a curmudgeon, but it really is rather too intricate. Even that hose is problematic imo. plus I might accidentally put wrong fuel in my tank just like our newbie put gas in our company diesel truck 25 years ago 😂
 
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#2,697
#2,697
Orangeburst said:
i am mostly being a curmudgeon, but it really is rather too intricate. Even that hose is problematic imo. plus I might accidentally put wrong fuel in my tank just like our newbie put gas in our company diesel truck 25 years ago 😂
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Well I don’t think the average Californian climate warrior is very damn smart and you know they’re the ones who have bought them in CA and they haven’t blown themselves up yet. Other than that test case rural Alabama would be the next concentrated group of nimrods to test on but I’m guessing they wouldn’t be a candidate consumer for fuel cell cars 😂
 
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#2,698
#2,698
Orangeburst said:
i am mostly being a curmudgeon, but it really is rather too intricate. Even that hose is problematic imo. plus I might accidentally put wrong fuel in my tank just like our newbie put gas in our company diesel truck 25 years ago 😂
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Hydrogen fuel stations aren’t like a normal gas station. The chance of someone, even a Morgan Wallen fan, putting the wrong fuel in one is close to zero.
 
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