Electric Vehicles

#451
#451
McDad said:
Updated projections have batteries lasting between 10 and 20 years.
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I work for a car manufacturer. 10 is the high end, Im currently managing cases for 3 different customers whose battery went bad in the first 4 months of ownership and the batteries have been B ordered for over 3 months. 2 of them haven’t even left S Korea yet.
 
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#453
#453
OHvol40 said:
The US imported 7.9 million barrels of oil per day in 2020. What does energy independence mean to you?

I think everyone understands that energy to power electric cars has to come from somewhere and that the infrastructure for a majority EV US won’t happen overnight. I pointed out that the volatility in the oil market and recently skyrocketing prices are a great motivation to figure out how to be energy independent with a shift toward alternative sources that are both sustainable and cleaner while reducing our reliance on a global oil market largely controlled by OPEC.
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In bold red.
=========================================================================================================
The United States became a net annual petroleum exporter in 2020
In 2020, the United States exported about 8.51 MMb/d and imported about 7.86 MMb/d of petroleum1, making the United States a net annual petroleum exporter for the first time since at least 1949. Also in 2020, the United States produced2 about 18.40 million barrels per day (MMb/d) of petroleum, and consumed3 about 18.12 MMb/d. Even though in 2020, total U.S. annual petroleum production was greater than total petroleum consumption and exports were greater than imports, the United States still imported some crude oil and petroleum products from other countries to help to supply domestic demand for petroleum and to supply international markets.

The United States remained a net crude oil importer in 2020, importing nearly 5.88 MMb/d and exporting about 3.18 MMb/d. However, some of the crude oil that the U.S. imports is refined by U.S. refineries into petroleum products—such as gasoline, heating oil, diesel fuel, and jet fuel—that the U.S. exports. Also, some of imported petroleum may be stored and subsequently exported.

U.S. petroleum imports in 2020 were the lowest since 1991
The United States imported about 7.86 MMb/d of petroleum in 2020, which included 5.88 MMb/d of crude oil and 1.98 MMb/d of noncrude petroleum liquids and refined petroleum products. These were the lowest levels of imports of total petroleum and of crude oil since 1991.

After generally increasing every year from 1954 through 2005, U.S. total gross and net petroleum imports peaked in 2005. Increases in domestic petroleum production and in petroleum exports helped to reduce total annual petroleum net imports every year except one since 2005. In 2020, annual petroleum net imports were actually negative (at -0.65 MMb/d), the first time this occured since at least 1949.

Oil imports and exports - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
 
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#454
#454
AM64 said:
I've never read his work, but there's a lot of oxygen and hydrogen in water. You can produce a lot of energy in combining oxygen and hydrogen ... and water. The one thing that thermodynamics absolutely says it that it takes energy to disassociate the oxygen and hydrogen in water - and that there will be losses. So if you were disassembling water molecules and reassembling them for power, there's no way it would work ... that's perpetual motion and beyond kind of territory. Like the cold fusion people invented years ago was too good to be true ... and it was slick and not true. Now if RavinDave, has some magic catalysts ... but then he wouldn't be on VN hobnobbing with us
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The article I quotes said precisely the same about perpetual motion.
Ain't you a smart cookie?
 
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#456
#456
AM64 said:
I've never read his work, but there's a lot of oxygen and hydrogen in water. You can produce a lot of energy in combining oxygen and hydrogen ... and water. The one thing that thermodynamics absolutely says it that it takes energy to disassociate the oxygen and hydrogen in water - and that there will be losses. So if you were disassembling water molecules and reassembling them for power, there's no way it would work ... that's perpetual motion and beyond kind of territory. Like the cold fusion people invented years ago was too good to be true ... and it was slick and not true. Now if RavinDave, has some magic catalysts ... but then he wouldn't be on VN hobnobbing with us
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VN needs knobbers - hob or otherwise - to give Dinka something to talk about.
 
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#458
#458
McDad said:
Meyer's patents have expired. His inventions are now in the public domain, available for all to use without restriction or royalty payment.[14] No engine or vehicle manufacturer has incorporated Meyer's work so far.

If his claims are true, then anyone who can reproduce his results will become rich beyond all comprehension. Rich enough to protect themselves from Big Oil assassins.
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Yeah, if you want to die at the hands of oil tycoons who can't afford to get rich beyond all comprehension, smart guy.
 
#461
#461
McDad said:
Will OPEC send a hitman? Exxon?
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All I know is that big oil and big auto haven't figured out yet they could buy each other out or partner selling water vehicles for 3X premium while still selling petro to the Luddites and po' folk.

It's the only reason any of us are still alive.
 
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#462
#462
sonofUT62 said:
I work for a car manufacturer. 10 is the high end, Im currently managing cases for 3 different customers whose battery went bad in the first 4 months of ownership and the batteries have been B ordered for over 3 months. 2 of them haven’t even left S Korea yet.
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I speak with an engineer for GM regularly, he's told me if you ever get an electric vehicle never charge or park it in your garage and trade it in every 3 years.
 
#464
#464
KB5252 said:
I speak with an engineer for GM regularly, he's told me if you ever get an electric vehicle never charge or park it in your garage and trade it in every 3 years.
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Out of curiosity, why those two recommendations?
 
#466
#466
VolStrom said:
Kind of like EV's except we not only don't have the chargers to support EV's we also don't have the surplus electricity that would be needed to charge them if we did.
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Also, exactly how long does it take to charge an EV? Now, imagine everybody in the U.S. owns EV’s and has to charge their car. The gas lines from the 70’s would look incredibly short by comparison (and that’s assuming our electrical grid could support that infrastructure, and you’re correct that it can’t and won’t for a very long time).
 
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#468
#468
Vol423 said:
Also, exactly how long does it take to charge an EV? Now, imagine everybody in the U.S. owns EV’s and has to charge their car. The gas lines from the 70’s would look incredibly short by comparison (and that’s assuming our electrical grid could support that infrastructure, and you’re correct that it can’t and won’t for a very long time).
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Gotta figure a good 30 - 45 minutes to get back above 80% power. Have watched several "long trip" videos in EVs and that's typically what happens at stops.

I'm sure chargers will improve but it's seems unlikely we'll ever see speeds anywhere near gas refills. Behavioral change required.

I'm pro EV but I'm not sure they ever replace the convenience of internal combustion for long distance traveling. Maybe if there are battery exchange stations rather than battery chargers.
 
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#469
#469
volinbham said:
Gotta figure a good 30 - 45 minutes to get back above 80% power. Have watched several "long trip" videos in EVs and that's typically what happens at stops.

I'm sure chargers will improve but it's seems unlikely we'll ever see speeds anywhere near gas refills. Behavioral change required.

I'm pro EV but I'm not sure they ever replace the convenience of internal combustion for long distance traveling. Maybe if there are battery exchange stations rather than battery chargers.
Click to expand...

Then of course rapid charging further degrades the batteries more rapidly and charging while the batteries are hot will only make it that much worse.
 
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#470
#470
volinbham said:
Gotta figure a good 30 - 45 minutes to get back above 80% power. Have watched several "long trip" videos in EVs and that's typically what happens at stops.

I'm sure chargers will improve but it's seems unlikely we'll ever see speeds anywhere near gas refills. Behavioral change required.

I'm pro EV but I'm not sure they ever replace the convenience of internal combustion for long distance traveling. Maybe if there are battery exchange stations rather than battery chargers.
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Can you even imagine the quantity required for summertime travel?

I'm with you, I think. I'm not at all opposed to a daily commuter EV. My partner has a a Tesla and loves it. It's fast as **** and really cool.

I just don't like the looks of the 3 and am not wanting to drop 90k for a nice S.
 
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#471
#471
C-south said:
Then of course rapid charging further degrades the batteries more rapidly and charging while the batteries are hot will only make it that much worse.
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Explain to me how you get a non-hot battery in the Arizona desert when it’s sitting outside in 110-118 degree heat all day every day in the summer. Also, driving from Phoenix to California, you’re going to have to install massive EV charging stations out in the middle of nowhere in the Mohave desert because a single EV battery charge won’t get you across the desert.
 
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#472
#472
volinbham said:
Gotta figure a good 30 - 45 minutes to get back above 80% power. Have watched several "long trip" videos in EVs and that's typically what happens at stops.

I'm sure chargers will improve but it's seems unlikely we'll ever see speeds anywhere near gas refills. Behavioral change required.

I'm pro EV but I'm not sure they ever replace the convenience of internal combustion for long distance traveling. Maybe if there are battery exchange stations rather than battery chargers.
Click to expand...
When I drive cross country, my stops are 10 minutes max (other than overnight stops at a hotel). There’s no way in hell I’m stopping for 45 minutes every 225-300 miles.
 
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#473
#473
Vol423 said:
Explain to me how you get a non-hot battery in the Arizona desert when it’s sitting outside in 110-118 degree heat all day every day in the summer. Also, driving from Phoenix to California, you’re going to have to install massive EV charging stations out in the middle of nowhere in the Mohave desert because a single EV battery charge won’t get you across the desert.
Click to expand...

There is no explanation other than it makes them that much less practical in that environment. Heat destroys the longevity of batteries. Actually they aren’t practical at all unless you have short commutes on a daily basis. If you’re having to plan travel around charging stations availability and the time it takes to charge them it really should be a no brainer that it just isn’t a worthwhile investment unless you have money to burn.
 
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#474
#474
C-south said:
There is no explanation other than it makes them that much less practical in that environment. Heat destroys the longevity of batteries. Actually they aren’t practical at all unless you have short commutes on a daily basis. If you’re having to plan travel around charging stations availability and the time it takes to charge them it really should be a no brainer that it just isn’t a worthwhile investment unless you have money to burn.
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Yeah. I said earlier in the thread that normal car batteries last 2-3 years here against a 5-year warranty period.

Of course, the socialists mid-term goal is to eliminate the combustion engine and force people to purchase EV’s.
 
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