Electric Vehicles

#127
#127
McDad said:
That makes sense to me. Does 15 years seem out of reach under "normal' usage?
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I have no idea. Equate it to the range of current EV vehicles and “normal” driving patterns. 15k per year would be 75 full charge cycles per year. But everyone plugs their car in each night so it’s ready to go the next day right? Which arbitrarily increases the number of charge cycles. Additionally you NEVER want to fully discharge a lithium battery or any battery for that matter. That also uses up battery life.

The clear takeaway away is your average American is not mentally equipped to manage the battery in their EV and achieve maximum battery life 🤷‍♂️
 
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#129
#129
dobre_shunka said:
If you buy a new gasoline or diesel vehicle, you will also be subsidizing someone else's electric car purchase .

'Currently, electric vehicles are much more expensive than vehicles with internal combustion engines. As the CEO of Stellantis explained late last year, “What has been decided is to impose on the automotive industry electrification that brings 50% additional costs against a conventional vehicle.” He went on: “There is no way we can transfer 50% of additional costs to the final consumer because most parts of the middle class will not be able to pay.” In December 2021, the average new vehicle cost over $47,000 and the average used car
cost nearly $30,000. To put this in perspective, the average individual income in the United
States is about $63,000. '

https://energycommerce.house.gov/sites/democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/files/documents/Witness Testimony_Pyle_ENG_2022.3.8.pdf
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Man, I love my 2001 Silverado. A paid for, well-maintained, gas-powered vehicle from which the government gets very little additional money off me. Especially in light of I do not care to pay for someone else's virtue signalling.
 
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#130
#130
AM64 said:
Post #119 has a couple of articles on the bans. I've also read some articles claiming we are basically poisoning ourselves with NG cookstoves, etc. Almost like it's a concerted effort to discourage or outright ban NG for home use, and it looks to be the environmental gang out to do the axing. They can't seem to understand that there are a lot of losses and inefficiencies in using NG (seems to be the fuel of choice right now) to produce and transfer electric power that would replace NG heating and cooking. I don't think they are ready for the ire they will face from people who cook with gas and have to transition to electric ranges, or people who like the heat from a NG furnace.
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I've had NG, resistance electric and inductive stoves. Screw NG, give me electric any day, especially induction cook tops.
 
#131
#131
NorthDallas40 said:
I have no idea. Equate it to the range of current EV vehicles and “normal” driving patterns. 15k per year would be 75 full charge cycles per year. But everyone plugs their car in each night so it’s ready to go the next day right? Which arbitrarily increases the number of charge cycles. Additionally you NEVER want to fully discharge a lithium battery or any battery for that matter. That also uses up battery life.

The clear takeaway away is your average American is not mentally equipped to manage the battery in their EV and achieve maximum battery life 🤷‍♂️
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I'll have to look at the resource I'm citing. Not sure if 10-20 yrs is optimal max or a "should be achievable" based on current behaviors.
 
#133
#133
NorthDallas40 said:
How long did it take mass produced internal combustion engine automobiles to replace the horse and buggy? How long have EVs been offered for sale by major auto mfgrs and what is their market penetration? Ultimately that comparison will determine if the EV is an equivalent replacement for the internal combustion engine.
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The first patent was in 1886. The model didnt roll out until 1908. Not sure when cars became the defacto mode of transportation but I would assume it wasnt until after WW2 with the depression probably limiting the spread.

No idea about the infrastructure side of things.

Also not sure how you would compare the timeline. About when did this ev push "start"?
 
#135
#135
McDad said:
I'll have to look at the resource I'm citing. Not sure if 10-20 yrs is optimal max or a "should be achievable" based on current behaviors.
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I expect things to get better over time. But it’s hard to over come the limits imposed by Mother Nature which is what drives the charging cycle limitation. “Wear” occurs on any battery when it is discharged. Rapid charging also causes excessive “wear”. Excessive discharging can kill a battery. This generally applies to any battery cell medium.
 
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#137
#137
LouderVol said:
The first patent was in 1886. The model didnt roll out until 1908. Not sure when cars became the defacto mode of transportation but I would assume it wasnt until after WW2 with the depression probably limiting the spread.

No idea about the infrastructure side of things.

Also not sure how you would compare the timeline. About when did this ev push "start"?
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I wasn’t making a claim other than pointing out that mass adoption is the criteria. And I’d guess in both cases patent award date /= mass availability. If we want to play that game EVs have conceptually been around I’d guess since around WW2?
 
#141
#141
hog88 said:
When you buy an EV does the home charging system and installation come with it? What would people that live in apartments do?
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I asked my wife about the apartments. She said most all new, high end apartment complexes are installing some ( 1 or 2 per building and one at the clubhouse) charging stations. The fights over these should be epic.
 
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#142
#142
zeppelin128 said:
I tend to be "all hands on deck" when it comes to energy sources. Diversification is good for the energy grid, as opposed to picking one thing and saying do that everywhere. Regions of the country need to use what is most applicable for their area.

Good thing about nuclear is it can be used in many different types of geographies with huge output and a relatively small footprint. We can go all Fallout 4 and put a reactor in everything down to refrigerators.
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Nuclear is a hard sell for power generation companies, and probably and impossible task to sell to investors because of the licensing and long construction process. There's interest in mini reactors, but why would you really want to go small scale if you face all the licensing and siting issues that you would for say a plant generating 1000 MWatts? And you have no idea how long court battles can tie it all up before the plant can power a light bulb. I'm all for nuclear power - that's my field, but some obstacles have to be removed, and it will probably take government financing to make new plants happen. The other thing is the inefficiency and disruption by solar and wind, and NG generation being quick and easy to build by comparison. Logically you would use nuclear for baseload and NG for peaking if you are determined to use unstable sources like solar.
 
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#143
#143
hog88 said:
I asked my wife about the apartments. She said most all new, high end apartment complexes are installing some ( 1 or 2 per building and one at the clubhouse) charging stations. The fights over these should be epic.
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Gonna be great watching both EV Karen’s demanding to see the manger and give them satisfaction at the same time 😂
 
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#144
#144
LouderVol said:
The first patent was in 1886. The model didnt roll out until 1908. Not sure when cars became the defacto mode of transportation but I would assume it wasnt until after WW2 with the depression probably limiting the spread.

No idea about the infrastructure side of things.

Also not sure how you would compare the timeline. About when did this ev push "start"?
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Mules and horses still powered a good bit of agriculture after WW2 in this country. For that matter, cotton was still hand picked in some areas (north Georgia and east Tennessee) until the late 1960s.
 
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#145
#145
NorthDallas40 said:
Gonna be great watching both EV Karen’s demanding to see the manger and give them satisfaction at the same time 😂
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They have no plans to install them at any of her complexes. Residents couldn't afford the EV anyway.
 
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#146
#146
DonjoVol said:
Not only do some people want everyone in electric cars but they would love to have everyone packed like sardines into cities using public transportation
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Those new york subways are really safe. Seems like someone gets killed there everyday now.
 
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#147
#147
NorthDallas40 said:
America loves their trucks/sport utes. If you want to sell automobiles in America and be successful at it you’re gonna offer trucks and sport utes.
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I drive a sedan because I don't want to drive a truck on a daily basis, but there are times I'd kill for a truck. The last time I had both it was a PITA between moving one to get to the other and the wife telling me I had too many vehicles. I can see with the new cabs in trucks why a lot of people just go that way and drop the car.
 
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#148
#148
dobre_shunka said:
You said what's the beef with electric cars becuase it's all market driven and I pointed out it's not market driven. Never mentioned petroleum industry in my response.

So now deflect instead of "facing that reality" by acknowledging it's not market driven.
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Well if you consider that environmentalist nazis and the government are the "market", EVs are market driven.
 
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