Feds charge six men accused in plot to kidnap Michigan governor

#401
#401
1972 Grad said:
None of my 4 grandparents finished high school, or got arrested, and were married to with their one and only spouse until death. They were already in their 40's when the Great Depression hit. I'm not sure it was that big of an adjustment to them, because they were already poor. What makes this such a great country is that we have progressed to the point that really very, very few people have as meager of an existence as most people did around here 100 years ago.
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This^
It is sad and frustrating that folks think poverty is a "cause" of crime. The associations of crime and poverty are there, but not in the causal sense they are thinking. The difference in our grandparents and the current generation is ethics. Hard work was not anathema. My grandmother told me stories of being mocked at Clinton highschool because her clothes were made from feedbags.
There is one thing that if anyone does, regardless of race, they will not live in poverty. Finish high school, and don't have a child out of wedlock. That's it.

I've worked in the urban areas and many (not all) of these people don't know what real poverty is like. I recall handing out back packs with school supplies about 12 years ago. We were in the Vestal community. As I handed a pack to one boy, who seemed disinterested, i asked him about getting the back pack. He said it was the 3rd one he received that week. After talking with the people in the community we found out there were a number of other groups doing the same thing. Since this wasn't the focus of our mission, we stopped. Charity in our community is as much about making people feel good about "giving" than it is about meeting any actual needs. I'm not saying there aren't needs, just not people standing in bread lines. In fact, much of our poor have shelter, food, cell phones and cable. Those going without are likely ignorant to the resources available.

The poverty in rural Appalachia is far worse than our urban areas.
 
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#402
#402
PointGuard said:
NO! The racism in this statement is on your Father, and his parents before him for passing along their misguided beliefs to your Dad and then him to you. You no doubt are passing along to your kids the same sentiment. In your case you are the classic example of being a racist without realizing you are a racist. And so it goes - - cluster fork from one generation on down to the next. Most kids are influenced (aka brainwashed and manipulated) by their parents belief systems. It's fairly uncommon for children to think for themselves outside their upbringing and right the wrongs they were taught

And it's not just racism. It's all the other off-the-charts BS that plagues society that get's handed down too, including a lot of nonsense conspiratorial theories
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So what's your solution to breaking the cycle? Education is the obvious one to me - and that's the thirsty horse refusing to drink when there's plenty of fresh water right in front of him. Employment comes from having marketable skills - education - and that's free and has been for decades. Dealing in drugs and stolen goods may provide an understanding of marketing and distribution - perhaps even economics, but that's not the formal education in those topics needed to impress a normal employer. Enjoy playing with weapons? Try the military, but they require discipline and education. Want a job where trade skills are in demand - plumbing, electrical, construction, auto repair? A laborer, a concrete finisher, and a few others might get by with minimal education, but certification requires education.

Education and self discipline are the way out of poverty, but that change has to come from within the community. We've all seen or read movies, stories, endless articles about inner city kids "forced" into gangs and without the right parental guidance to instill discipline and direction - that's part of the community problem that the community has to fix. It can't be done from the outside. Want a better way of life - then work for it. Want gangs off the streets - then let the cops know who they are. Reward doesn't come without risk or without effort. Public education has pretty much always been there - at least post civil war. The civil rights act of 1964 put a lid on "systemic racism"; if you're still complaining about the problem almost 60 years later, look closer to home - when all other things are equal, the law is on your side. Get the damn chip off your shoulder and work on the problem; it's well demonstrated that outside intervention alone can't fix it. My bet is that in another fifty years there'll be no real change, and the downtown knife and gun clubs - like Grady in Atlanta - will still be doing a booming business.
 
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#403
#403
Roustabout said:
This^
It is sad and frustrating that folks think poverty is a "cause" of crime. The associations of crime and poverty are there, but not in the causal sense they are thinking. The difference in our grandparents and the current generation is ethics. Hard work was not anathema. My grandmother told me stories of being mocked at Clinton highschool because her clothes were made from feedbags.
There is one thing that if anyone does, regardless of race, they will not live in poverty. Finish high school, and don't have a child out of wedlock. That's it.

I've worked in the urban areas and many (not all) of these people don't know what real poverty is like. I recall handing out back packs with school supplies about 12 years ago. We were in the Vestal community. As I handed a pack to one boy, who seemed disinterested, i asked him about getting the back pack. He said it was the 3rd one he received that week. After talking with the people in the community we found out there were a number of other groups doing the same thing. Since this wasn't the focus of our mission, we stopped. Charity in our community is as much about making people feel good about "giving" than it is about meeting any actual needs. I'm not saying there aren't needs, just not people standing in bread lines. In fact, much of our poor have shelter, food, cell phones and cable. Those going without are likely ignorant to the resources available.

The poverty in rural Appalachia is far worse than our urban areas.
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My mother told me much the same story about how the "city" kids looked down on her because she had homemade clothes, versus the pretty store bought dresses that the other girls had. Her parents moved into the town from out in the country in time to start high school in the very late 1920's. She also told me about people coming to collect rent when her dad didn't have enough to pay, and about going with a little pull wagon to buy a quarter's worth of coal to put in a pot bellied stove. And about cutting carboard to put in the bottom of her shoes when they wore through. She said that she decided right then, that if hard work would bring her out of poverty, she was going to work as hard as she could.

She was able to start her own business in 1947, at the age of 33, and worked in it until she died 61 years later. She really never knew anything but work, but she made something out of herself from nothing, and earned respect from the town as a successful business person. I respect my parents for the way they pulled themselves up from poverty, were honest to a fault, made something out of themselves, and died leaving a good name. Plus, they made my life a lot easier, but they did instill a work ethic and honesty in me.
 
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#408
#408
Roustabout said:
This^
It is sad and frustrating that folks think poverty is a "cause" of crime. The associations of crime and poverty are there, but not in the causal sense they are thinking. The difference in our grandparents and the current generation is ethics. Hard work was not anathema. My grandmother told me stories of being mocked at Clinton highschool because her clothes were made from feedbags.
There is one thing that if anyone does, regardless of race, they will not live in poverty. Finish high school, and don't have a child out of wedlock. That's it.

I've worked in the urban areas and many (not all) of these people don't know what real poverty is like. I recall handing out back packs with school supplies about 12 years ago. We were in the Vestal community. As I handed a pack to one boy, who seemed disinterested, i asked him about getting the back pack. He said it was the 3rd one he received that week. After talking with the people in the community we found out there were a number of other groups doing the same thing. Since this wasn't the focus of our mission, we stopped. Charity in our community is as much about making people feel good about "giving" than it is about meeting any actual needs. I'm not saying there aren't needs, just not people standing in bread lines. In fact, much of our poor have shelter, food, cell phones and cable. Those going without are likely ignorant to the resources available.

The poverty in rural Appalachia is far worse than our urban areas.
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What is your point? That hard work and graduating from High School are major factors in improving oneself. No one is suggesting it doesn’t, you keep ignoring the fact that crime rates in high poverty areas are much higher compared to higher income areas as are drop out rates. Illegal drug use is a crime and ground zero for meth use is Appalachia, not urban areas. Of course there aren’t “bread lines”, charity and government programs take many different forms but that doesn’t mean there aren’t hundreds of thousands of people who would be in bread lines if those programs didn’t exist.
 
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#413
#413
Jxn Vol said:
That governor has caused more harm to her state than any resident in Michigan. Think about that for a second. It’s no surprise people are pissed. I disagree with them. But man she sucks as a leader.
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You sound like a terrorist sympathizer
 
#414
#414
Jxn Vol said:
That governor has caused more harm to her state than any resident in Michigan. Think about that for a second. It’s no surprise people are pissed. I disagree with them. But man she sucks as a leader.
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Elections have consequences.
 
#415
#415
Jxn Vol said:
That governor has caused more harm to her state than any resident in Michigan. Think about that for a second. It’s no surprise people are pissed. I disagree with them. But man she sucks as a leader.
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Why be obsessed with a governor of a state that you don’t even live in? Oh, because dear leader needs another scapegoat? Don’t you think the people of Michigan can fend for themselves?
 
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#416
#416
OHvol40 said:
What be obsessed with a governor of a state that you don’t even live in? Oh, because dear leader needs another scapegoat? Don’t you think the people of Michigan can fend for themselves?
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That’s an interesting way of looking at things right after Bernie shows up and makes multiple stops in Michigan stumping for Biden . I mean why would he be so obsessed with Michigan since he lives in Vermont and has always represented his state on the Northern east coast , especially as an “ Independent “
?
 
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#417
#417
0nelilreb said:
That’s an interesting way of looking at things right after Bernie shows up and makes multiple stops in Michigan stumping for Biden . I mean why would he be so obsessed with Michigan since he lives in Vermont and has always represented his state on the Northern east coast , especially as an “ Independent “
?
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Campaigning in Michigan and trashing their governor (and encouraging your cult to do the same) to cover for your own incompetence do not equate.
 
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#420
#420
OHvol40 said:
Huh?
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Your question was about obsession ( actually just opinions ) with a state you don’t live in and their citizens . I pointed out that Bernie ( an independent) thats lived all his life on the east coast and represented Vermont in his public career was in Michigan trying to convince it’s citizens to do what’s right for the country ( people that lives outside of Michigan ) by voting for a Democrat that doesn’t live in Michigan and couldn’t visit them himself , because he was too busy to make it to their state I guess . You moved the goal posts by saying one obsession was different from the other simply because of politics and vote pandering . 🤷‍♂️
 
#421
#421
0nelilreb said:
Your question was about obsession ( actually just opinions ) with a state you don’t live in and their citizens . I pointed out that Bernie ( an independent) thats lived all his life on the east coast and represented Vermont in his public career was in Michigan trying to convince it’s citizens to do what’s right for the country ( people that lives outside of Michigan ) by voting for a Democrat that doesn’t live in Michigan and couldn’t visit them himself , because he was too busy to make it to their state I guess . You moved the goal posts by saying one obsession was different from the other simply because of politics and vote pandering . 🤷‍♂️
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Be careful, he might blow a circuit breaker.
 
#422
#422
InVOLuntary said:
Be careful, he might blow a circuit breaker.
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liberal circuit breakers are easier to replace than going to Lowe’s , they just turn on MSNBC or go to liberal tweeter and they are back dancing the Varsovienne ( word of the day ) again fueled by emotions . 😊
 
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#424
#424
NashVol11 said:
Cool, good to know you think an attempted terrorist attack is less serious than a traffic violation because the latter has “bEeN cOmMiTtEd”
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It's better to be on hand with 10 men than to be absent with 10,000.

Same is true in reverse.
 
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