Game Thread: Iowa v Lady Vols, Sat Dec 7th ; Shark Beauty Women's Champions Classic; 7PM; FOX network TV; WIN 78-68

[chuckiepoo]

Kim has a good chance to change some minds if her system continues to provide victories and a player sees an opportunity to flourish in her system. It might be too late for Wollizoko but if Kim continues to win......

Would Wolizcko even be a fit?

 

[Lucy]

We came...We saw...We kicked your ass!

I could love this a thousand times! Especially after they called our young ladies names!

 

[Lucy]

wtf? Ever had a newborn set of twins around the house with no grandmas around?

Yer father smelled of elderberries…

Good lord man!! Twins with no grandmothers!
I hope the twins were not the first kiddos!!

 

[RebKell]

According to Massey

Team	Record	Δ	Rat	Pwr	Off	Def	HFA	SoS	SSF	EW	EL
South Carolina Southeastern	8-1 0.889		1 9.31	1 80.58	2 107.26	1 38.57	2.71	1 60.90	1 61.78	18.48	2.52
Connecticut Big East	8-0 1.000		2 9.19	2 75.19	11 104.09	2 36.36	2.67	14 54.34	21 57.01	19.86	3.14
LSU Southeastern	10-0 1.000	+2	3 9.04	4 72.55	3 106.84	22 30.97	2.61	29 51.52	14 58.02	16.32	4.68
UCLA Big 10	8-0 1.000		4 8.94	7 70.30	16 101.31	4 34.25	2.66	24 52.74	7 58.91	16.07	5.93
Texas Southeastern	7-1 0.875	+1	5 8.82	3 73.55	5 104.84	5 33.96	2.64	20 53.40	3 59.51	17.99	5.01
Iowa Big 10	8-1 0.889	-3	6 8.82	5 72.30	1 108.07	39 29.49	2.67	6 56.55	2 60.42	15.01	4.99
Tennessee Southeastern	7-0 1.000	+6	7 8.78	13 68.23	6 104.78	49 28.70	2.73	25 52.12	6 59.08	14.86	7.14
Maryland Big 10	10-0 1.000		8 8.71	20 67.38	7 104.56	58 28.07	2.90	49 48.62	12 58.24	11.96	7.04
Ohio St Big 10	7-0 1.000	-2	9 8.71	8 70.29	9 104.19	16 31.36	2.70	119 43.79	16 57.83	15.99	6.01
Duke Atlantic Coast	8-2 0.800	-1	10 8.62	14 68.11	23 100.09	8 33.27	2.76	2 59.59	4 59.18	14.50	5.50

 

[37620VOL]

Correct!!

Let me do something completely out of character and pontificate.

When this debate first raged on the board, I come across a research article that analyzed 10 years of NBA data to address the effectiveness of TOs in breaking an opposing teams' runs.

The research showed that indeed, TOs did have statistically significant effect on breaking runs but they also found that other tactics were as or more effective, such as making subs or changing defensive schemes. The analytic conclusion was that TOs have more strategic value later in a game so coaches should conserve their TOs and use these other run breaking tools. I am willing to bet this approach has become the analytics wisdom.

Now, think about CKC's subbing patterns. It is almost like she disrupt runs before they start -- (On the flip side, I think the mass subbing may sometimes break our own offensive momentum but that is a different story).

The TO that CKC called was not just to stop a run but, as you note, to end a series of blundering decisions.

Madtown, bringing the good stuff

 

[chuckiepoo]

Good lord man!! Twins with no grandmothers!
I hope the twins were not the first kiddos!!

Actually her mom showed up after a few days. I prolly had that dazed and confused far away stare by the time she showed up…

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Would Wolizcko even be a fit?

Just wait until she has her recruits in the system for a couple of years. She will have a team of 4@5 stars who will be more accurate shooters and ball handlers. Many of the holdovers from last year are not her defensive and ball handlers coach needs to play her ”game”. Her teams only get better as she gets her players experience.

 

[volbound1700]

Big win. I missed this game due to a conflict. Hopefully Lady Vols will be in top 25 now.

 

[Ladyvols4ever!]

Big win. I missed this game due to a conflict. Hopefully Lady Vols will be in top 25 now.

It's reairing at 11pm tonight on the FoxSports Network.

 

[ThatVolGuy]

Big win. I missed this game due to a conflict. Hopefully Lady Vols will be in top 25 now.

They were already in the “teams receiving votes” category last week, and if I remember correctly, the Lady Vols had the third-most votes after the top 25 (right behind FSU, interestingly). I think the FSU win could’ve gotten them into the top 25 by itself, and I wouldn’t be shocked if the Iowa win gets them into the top 20.

 

[Ladyvols4ever!]

They were already in the “teams receiving votes” category last week, and if I remember correctly, the Lady Vols had the third-most votes after the top 25 (right behind FSU, interestingly). I think the FSU win could’ve gotten them into the top 25 by itself, and I wouldn’t be shocked if the Iowa win gets them into the top 20.

Ranked #15 according to On3.

 

[MAD]

Ranked #15 according to On3.

 

[RebKell]

Here is the formula for how I do it.
Dff2Team=ABS(([@LVActScr]-[@LVs]))+ ABS(([@OppActScr]-[@OppScr]))
The ABS function in Excel returns the absolute value of a number, which is the number without its sign.
(Sort it by the Lowest)
FYI

LVActScr​	OppActScr​	Opponent	Player	LVs​	OppScr​	Dff2Team​	Rank2Tm​
78​	68​	Iowa	knoxvol52	79​	70​	3​	5.00​
78​	68​	Iowa	Purplehaze26	79​	73​	6​	4.00​
78​	68​	Iowa	Orange Maniac	81​	72​	7​	3.00​
78​	68​	Iowa	MAD	86​	68​	8​	2.00​
78​	68​	Iowa	chuckiepoo	76​	76​	10​	0.50​
78​	68​	Iowa	travis929	82​	74​	10​	0.50​
78​	68​	Iowa	volfannga	83​	74​	11​

 

[Orange.]

It may simply be that Jen and Rick Insell, who both poo-poohed Kim's system, are genuinely convinced it's not going to work in the long run because of their own vast coaching experience. They may also be put off by the new kid's sheer audacity. That seems like at least a part of it: the smirks and sneers scream "Yeah, okay kid. You think you invented coaching? You didn't."

Obviously there aren't going to be a lot of coaches outside of Knoxville who want to see her succeed. They want her to pay her dues first, and her getting the job in the first place probably irritated a lot of coaches.

Whatever. I'm glad Caldwell is confident and appears to have the respect and belief of her players. She is already wildly successful here and that's probably gonna make some folks jealous. Kim is unbothered. Love her!

You also have to take into account that those opposing coaches are recruiting against her.

Edit: I just saw that @newladyvolfan made this point earlier.

 

[Lucy]

You also have to take into account that those opposing coaches are recruiting against her.

Edit: I just saw that @newladyvolfan made this point earlier.

One thing I do get concerned about is CKC getting opportunities to be involved with USA basketball.
Not sure poobahs will be thrilled with her approach to the game and there will be some jealousy among her coaching peers if she has the success we anticipate.
Premature worrying on my part but USA basketball would be a help to recruiting and an honor for our coach and school. Cross that bridge down the road I suppose.

 

[jsc1973]

It's an easy jump from there to where apparently a few Iowa fans went on their board - thugs, "bar fighters".

Some people just can't get their heads out of their collective asses and into the 21st century. All I saw was two pretty good teams play hard but fair for 40 minutes and one made the plays at the end to win.

I have to agree with the folks who said Jensen's postgame remarks—specifically, when she said we'll have to see how the Lady Vols do against SEC teams—had a distinct flavor of sour grapes. She easily could've said something like, "You know, it's a very different kind of system, but her team is clearly buying in and they're playing really well, so hats off to Kim for an impressive season thus far." That's such a layup of a comment, so to insinuate anything along the lines of "this gimmicky style won't hold up against SEC teams" is obviously a calculated remark.

Also, as someone else noted, this line of reasoning is a little weird because you're somewhat implying that your own team isn't stiff competition. Whoops.

That is nothing but a butt-hurt coach who thinks CKC didn't "pay her dues." Jensen spent a quarter of a century in Iowa City waiting for Lisa Bluder to retire, even though she could have gotten a HC job anytime she wanted, including actually being offered a chance to succeed Bluder at Drake in 2000. Basically, she's the new Holly Warlick. Now she's getting beat by this 36 year-old upstart who got one of the most famous brands in women's basketball after one year as a D1 head coach, playing a style no one else has the guts to try.

She will probably lose to South Carolina and LSU and a few other teams in SEC play and someone like Jensen will feel vindicated. But she should keep in mind that Caldwell just threw this team together out of the portal and holdovers from a coach who played a different style, and she's going to face Tennessee again in years to come--when the team is one Caldwell recruited and has had a lot of experience with the system. I wouldn't be too snarky if I can't beat her now...

 

[glv98]

Great observation regarding fresh legs required for optimum 3 point shooting!

Which is why alarm bells go off in my head when I hear Kim or the players talk about fatigue during the cupcake, all home game, very early part of the schedule.

It's going to be an interesting part of the 'system' equation to see how the legs hold up for the long haul. I suspect that may be the answer to one of my other nagging questions - if the system is so magical why don't more coaches run it?

Before anyone brings up Marshall or Glenville, there's zero comparison to the running this system is going to require in the SEC and beyond.

 

[KnoxLikeUs]

I think Tennessee is as good as Ohio State after watching both teams this weekend. Interestingly after seeing they were ranked #11 by the AP, I felt Tennessee should be right around the Top 10-15 range in all polls this week.
Kentucky in this poll should not be ahead of either Tennessee or Ohio State.
Tennessee right now is the second most dangerous team to face in the SEC behind South Carolina.
I don’t see very many SEC teams that would’ve beaten Iowa in the historic Womens Champs Classic at Barclays Center.
The LVs had the gym rocking! GBO!

 

[37620VOL]

Which is why alarm bells go off in my head when I hear Kim or the players talk about fatigue during the cupcake, all home game, very early part of the schedule.

It's going to be an interesting part off the 'system' equation to see how the legs hold up for the long haul. I suspect that may be the answer to one of my other nagging questions - if the system is so magical why don't more coaches run it?

I think coaches have a hard time trusting 10-12 players getting 15+ minutes per game. They want to ride their 5-8 best and if they have to go deeper into the bench, they are telling that player "just don't do anything to hurt us".

As far as fatigue, there's short-term fatigue which is what happens when you play 3 minutes at 100% coast to coast. With the rotating in and out, short-term fatigue doesn't build up for the long-term. Once you acclimate to the intensity, you could play every day.

These teams riding their stars 35+ minutes per game, that is where long-term muscle fatigue, joint stress, and injuries build up.

 

[glv98]

These teams riding their stars 35+ minutes per game, that is where long-term muscle fatigue, joint stress, and injuries build up.

My understanding is our team does much more running than a 35 min game in practice. They've hyped how much they've run since summer. You just wonder about the culmutive effect of that plus games on legs. We'll see late in the season.

You're right, not only do the coaches have like to ride their hosses 35 mins a game, the hosses like to be ridden like that. And def will be ridden for 30+ mins if they aspire to high level success at the next level.

Pretty sure players like Coop, Spencer, and maybe Ruby will get at least 30 mins in SEC play.

 

[glv98]

One thing I do get concerned about is CKC getting opportunities to be involved with USA basketball.
Not sure poobahs will be thrilled with her approach to the game and there will be some jealousy among her coaching peers if she has the success we anticipate.
Premature worrying on my part but USA basketball would be a help to recruiting and an honor for our coach and school. Cross that bridge down the road I suppose.

Kellie has been heavily involved w USA Bball for several years, including last summer after her firing. She doesn't seem the vengful type, but it might have an effect.

As far as coaches being "jealous" of Kim, I think that would only happen if the lazy announcers keep pushing the ridiculous narrative that she invented up tempo play and that this is something no coach has ever seen or thought of. It's been around for 40 yrs and every coach down to high school has workshopped it. To her credit, I've never heard Kim imply that, just mind numb wbb press.

 

[37620VOL]

My understanding is our team does much more running than a 35 min game in practice. They've hyped how much they've run since summer. You just wonder about the culmutive effect of that plus games on legs. We'll see late in the season.

You're right, not only do the coaches have like to ride their hosses 35 mins a game, the hosses like to be ridden like that. And def will be ridden for 30+ mins if they aspire to high level success at the next level.

Pretty sure players like Coop, Spencer, and maybe Ruby will get at least 30 mins in SEC play.

You can try to simulate this kind of game intensity in practice, but IMO having played in a system that was exactly the CKC system on defense but a touch slower on offense, you cannot simulate this type of game intensity except through live game environment.

In football, they say you strain for 6 seconds during each play. So it's like, give me everything you've got for 6 seconds, then we'll regroup and go again. The CKC is give me everything you've got for ten 20-second bursts, then we sub out.

I think 30 minutes might be the high water mark. I can see Cooper and Spencer approaching 30 minutes in key games, but Coop is already getting barked at for jogging and she's nowhere near 30 minutes.

 

[glv98]

You can try to simulate this kind of game intensity in practice, but IMO having played in a system that was exactly the CKC system on defense but a touch slower on offense, you cannot simulate this type of game intensity except through live game environment.

In football, they say you strain for 6 seconds during each play. So it's like, give me everything you've got for 6 seconds, then we'll regroup and go again. The CKC is give me everything you've got for ten 20-second bursts, then we sub out.

I think 30 minutes might be the high water mark. I can see Cooper and Spencer approaching 30 minutes in key games, but Coop is already getting barked at for jogging and she's nowhere near 30 minutes.

I'm just talking about the cumulative amount of miles on legs by Feb. You may be playing fewer in game mins, but you've run much more in practice. So it seems it would equal or surpass the wear and tear on those who play 35 mins per game. But we'll see late in the season.

 

[DeerPark12]

Won't Justin be traveling with the men's team? I could be wrong, but I kinda doubt he'll be much help, or for very long. I'm guessing Kim's mother (and maybe Justin's mom???) will be the full-time help during the really hard early times.

As for Jenna taking over, I am wondering if she has a big enough head coach personality type to lead the team. She seems super quiet to me. I could be wrong because I only have casual observances to go on.

Loyalty-wise, she'd likely be Kim's choice. I just wonder if Jenna herself will actually want to be the face of the Lady Vols in games and in front of media. Might be too reserved to want all that. Or, maybe she's really a fireball! lol

Lazo may be her choice. He seems really engaged. Don't know.

They’ve already announced that Jenna will be the one that takes the lead for however long Kim is out. I would expect she would take a more active front facing role over the next few weeks to prepare for that.

 

[37620VOL]

I'm just talking about the cumulative amount of miles on legs by Feb. You may be playing fewer in game mins, but you've run much more in practice. So it seems it would equal or surpass the wear and tear on those who play 35 mins per game. But we'll see late in the season.

Good point