Game thread: Ut vs. Lip

#101
#101
Sandvol said:
You care more about the coach than you do about the players or the team or winning.
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Incorrect. But I have no reason whatsoever to believe that Holly Warlick is bad for the players, bad for the team, and her win-loss record is superb for someone barely into her third season. The problem isn't that she's a bad coach. She's no Geno or Muffett (yet), but she's a very good coach. You, on the other hand, are an abysmal "fan."
 
#102
#102
Sandvol said:
But, you want the kind of coach who could build a program as your coach. Only those kinds of coaches could keep an established program from declining.
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But that's my point...Holly didn't have the pressure of having to build the program. She inherited a really strong one, and that makes her job easier. IMO, it's easier to maintain something than it is to build it from scratch. She's obviously no Geno, but she doesn't have to be. She's still getting top players to come, she's still posting seasons that most coaches and fan bases would be happy with, and truthfully she's doing about as well as Pat did in her last few years.

Do I think she's perfect? No. She gives Burdick too many minutes, she's underusing the freshmen, and she shouldn't have lost to UTC this year...let alone twice in the last 3 years. But she does have an SEC regular season and tournament run under her belt, so it's not like she's a complete failure. For me, it's too early in the season to call for her head. Izzy is just now coming back, so I want to see what she does with her team back to full strength before I give up on her.
 
#103
#103
Sandvol said:
Nope. I'm just going to continue to demand excellence from this coach and hope the university doesn't let her lead it into obsolescence. You must be a UCONN fan.
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You aren't in a position to DEMAND anything, Skippy. We all want excellence, but it isn't for you to "demand" a coach with three times more wins than losses, two SEC titles, and two solid tournament runs in two years of head coaching be fired because you think she is going to lead the team into obsolescence.

And the fact that I disagree resoundingly with your doom and gloom bulls*** doesn't make me a fan of any other team. Get a grip.
 
#104
#104
Sandvol said:
But, you want the kind of coach who could build a program as your coach. Only those kinds of coaches could keep an established program from declining.
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That's not true. Muffet built ND to the empire they are now, yet I distinctly remember them being non-existent from 2002-2008 when Skylar Diggins came. Tennessee has never been out of the public spotlight. Even when they weren't at their best, they were still considered a team to contend for a NC. Please come with facts to back your statements.
 
#105
#105
Amb3096 said:
But that's my point...Holly didn't have the pressure of having to build the program. She inherited a really strong one, and that makes her job easier. IMO, it's easier to maintain something than it is to build it from scratch. She's obviously no Geno, but she doesn't have to be. She's still getting top players to come, she's still posting seasons that most coaches and fan bases would be happy with, and truthfully she's doing about as well as Pat did in her last few years.

Do I think she's perfect? No. She gives Burdick too many minutes, she's underusing the freshmen, and she shouldn't have lost to UTC this year...let alone twice in the last 3 years. But she does have an SEC regular season and tournament run under her belt, so it's not like she's a complete failure. For me, it's too early in the season to call for her head. Izzy is just now coming back, so I want to see what she does with her team back to full strength before I give up on her.
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I've pretty much given up on her.
 
#106
#106
ivyleague said:
You aren't in a position to DEMAND anything, Skippy. We all want excellence, but it isn't for you to "demand" a coach with three times more wins than losses, two SEC titles, and two solid tournament runs in two years of head coaching be fired because you think she is going to lead the team into obsolescence.

And the fact that I disagree resoundingly with your doom and gloom bulls*** doesn't make me a fan of any other team. Get a grip.
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If I'm not in a position then why pay attention to me Tweedle Dumb?
 
#107
#107
Sandvol said:
I've pretty much given up on her.
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Maybe you're right, but I see enough pieces on this team to be a good one, so I want to see how the season plays out. If Tennessee goes on to beat RU, Stanford and ND, I don't think anyone will be remembering Chattanooga.
 
#108
#108
Sandvol said:
Here is Geno's record his first 10 years at UCONN (coming from nothing.)

1985–86 Connecticut 12–15 4–12 7th
1986–87 Connecticut 14–13 9–7 T–4th
1987–88 Connecticut 17–11 9–7 5th
1988–89 Connecticut 24–6 13–2 1st NCAA 1st Round
1989–90 Connecticut 25–6 14–2 T–1st NCAA 2nd Round
1990–91 Connecticut 29–5 14–2 1st NCAA Final Four
1991–92 Connecticut 23–11 13–5 T–2nd NCAA 2nd Round
1992–93 Connecticut 18–11 12–6 3rd NCAA 1st Round
1993–94 Connecticut 30–3 17–1 1st NCAA Elite Eight
1994–95 Connecticut 35–0 18–0 1st NCAA Champions
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So according to the stats you provided, it took Tara 5 years to win her first NC. However, the platform for building a team back then wasn't as hard due to the lack of talent back in those days. Then for Geno, he needed 10 seasons to master being a head coach. And you expect Holly to do it in 2 seasons?? The parity of the women's game is at an all time high so again your expectations couldn't be met by anyone. Have you ever coached before?
 
#110
#110
mikey2smart said:
That's not true. Muffet built ND to the empire they are now, yet I distinctly remember them being non-existent from 2002-2008 when Skylar Diggins came. Tennessee has never been out of the public spotlight. Even when they weren't at their best, they were still considered a team to contend for a NC. Please come with facts to back your statements.
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You've got to understand with Muffet ND was transitioning for an all boys school to include girls. They had only just started girls' athletics when she got there. Major building job. But in 12 years she had a NC.
 
#111
#111
The Lady's still have the same issue, The Lip should have been seriously blown away. We still have not established a serious outside game. This was D2 school who should not have been in the same gym as a D1 team. At best this was regulated practice. This is the time to see what you can do from the outside. Quite frankly I say very little to brag about when it comes to the outside game. We spend far too much time throwing the ball around trying to go inside against cupcakes. We just do not have a sense of urgency. We need that. Beating a patsy (2-4) by 34 is no reason to party in the streets. We just do not look crisp and in possession of the killer instinct it takes to battle the high echelon of women's college basketball. This team should have gone down by 60, wasn't that the way it was last year when we played the Lips?

By the way to the fan who said Holly did so well with the inside game last year. Maybe you forgot one thing, it only worked well when Meighan Simmons was hot from the outside. Last year, most of the time, when the Lady Vols won, it was, in large part, because Meighan got hotter than a two dollar pistol. Where is the Meighan Simmons of this year? I hate to say it but, "MEIGHAN I MISS YOU"!!!!!!
 
#112
#112
Sandvol said:
If I'm not in a position then why pay attention to me Tweedle Dumb?
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You're a bit like a train wreck. It's hard to pass you up without looking, but that doesn't mean I consider what you say "good." You aren't smart, but you are ridiculous enough to be rather entertaining.
 
#114
#114
Sandvol said:
You've got to understand with Muffet ND was transitioning for an all boys school to include girls. They had only just started girls' athletics when she got there. Major building job. But in 12 years she had a NC.
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And it also took a long time before she got back to a FF after the NC in 2000...and she's probably the best strategic coach in the game today (she's had less to work with than Geno has).
 
#115
#115
ivyleague said:
You're a bit like a train wreck. It's hard to pass you up without looking, but that doesn't mean I consider what you say "good." You aren't smart, but you are ridiculous enough to be rather entertaining.
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And, it is obvious you have your head stuck up Holly's butt. How does it smell up there?
 
#117
#117
teacherdean said:
By the way to the fan who said Holly did so well with the inside game last year. Maybe you forgot one thing, it only worked well when Meighan Simmons was hot from the outside. Last year, most of the time, when the Lady Vols won, it was, in large part, because Meighan got hotter than a two dollar pistol. Where is the Meighan Simmons of this year? I hate to say it but, "MEIGHAN I MISS YOU"!!!!!!
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That's why I hope Holly changes her starting lineup. No Carter, no Reynolds, no Jones/Burdick. She needs at least 2 bombers there: Ariel, Nared, maybe Middleton. If she puts Graves/Harrison on the court with 3 non-scorers, they're going to get swallowed up by the better teams.
 
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#119
#119
mikey2smart said:
So according to the stats you provided, it took Tara 5 years to win her first NC. However, the platform for building a team back then wasn't as hard due to the lack of talent back in those days. Then for Geno, he needed 10 seasons to master being a head coach. And you expect Holly to do it in 2 seasons?? The parity of the women's game is at an all time high so again your expectations couldn't be met by anyone. Have you ever coached before?
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Holly already had a bunch of McDonald's All American's on her team and inherited what Pat had built. Girls from all over the country wanted to come to Tennessee. Geno built it from scratch. Now you're not even making any sense.
 
#120
#120
Sandvol said:
Here is Tara's record her first 10 years at Stanford:


1985–86 Stanford 13–15 1–7 5th
1986–87 Stanford 14–14 8–10 T-6th
1987–88 Stanford 27–5 14–4 3rd NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1988–89 Stanford 28–3 18–0 1st NCAA Elite 8
1989–90 Stanford 32–1 17–1 T-1st NCAA Champions
1990–91 Stanford 26–6 16–2 1st NCAA Final Four
1991–92 Stanford 30–3 15–3 1st NCAA Champions
1992–93 Stanford 26–6 15–3 1st NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1993–94 Stanford 25–6 15–3 2nd NCAA Elite 8
1994–95 Stanford 30–3 17–1 1st NCAA Final Four
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Check Geno's record it' nowhere close in the first 7-8 years.
 
#122
#122
Sandvol said:
That is your argument? He still doesn't have a NC?
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And weak argument at that. He has two National Runner-ups since Tennessee has even been in a Final Four. He made Holly and her superior talent look silly in one of those tournament runs. He lost two UConn both times in the title game. Guess how many times Pat beat Geno in the title game? Guess how many times ANY coach has beaten Geno in the title game?
 
#123
#123
Sandvol said:
No I don't have serious issues. I'm very well adjusted. I don't think you are though. I think you have a woman crush on Holly.
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Because I disagree with your assessment that she's a "bad" coach? Again I say, get a grip. You don't come across as very well adjusted. You come across as a bit obsessed with demanding Holly be replaced because of a couple of losses. I'm merely countering your asinine comments with some sanity. I think the fanbase's obsession with "demanding" a "new and improved" coach after every loss is ridiculous. I don't follow the men's basketball team as closely as I follow the Lady Vols, but I thought the fanbase's treatment of Coach Martin last season was abominable

If the above is all you have, you're a lost cause.
 
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#125
#125
Mikey I respect what you are saying, however, Geno, Tara, and Muffet all came into programs where lady's basketball was not any where close to what Holly inherited. Most of the top schools were only involved in women's basketball because of Title 9. Most programs at that time considered women's sports as a financial yoke placed around their necks by the NCAA. The afore mentioned coaches started with no stars and low stars. Holly has as many 5 stars as any of the top teams. Yes I know parity in Women basketball is at its highest point, which is good for women's basketball, but Holly has Enough talent to reach the final 4. It is tough to replace a legend, however, when Holly accepted the job this should have been clear in her mind. She did well the first two years using the same game plan as Pat had established and other successful teams copied. The inside game is still alive, however, the top teams can take you inside and outside. Right now, no matter if we like him or hate him, Geno is the top dog in coaching, to win you have to have something close to his game plan. Remember how UCONN was beaten by Stanford they were all over UCONN's top shooters both inside and outside. I have to add that Stanford was helped because Stowie does not seem to be as physical as Dolson was. Lastly, Holly needs a consistent point and an outrageous 3 point shooter who is hot as a bucket of hot coal.
 
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