Girl Pressures Boyfriend into Suicide

[hog88]

Same hypothetical I presented to hog:

I lie to you and say that I have your family tied up, and I am going to kill them unless you kill yourself. You have absolutely no way of knowing that I'm lying.

I have not actually done anything. My ultimatum is nothing but speech.

Am I responsible if you kill yourself to save your family?

Not criminally.

If I tell you I'm banging your wife and you go home and shoot her, am I responsible?

 

[bamawriter]

Not criminally.

If I tell you I'm banging your wife and you go home and shoot her, am I responsible?

Do you have reason to believe that I'm mentally ill and prone to violence?

 

[hog88]

There is something seriously wrong with you. Do you have children?

Two very healthy and happy, both in their 20s thank you. I don't understand what that has to do with this discussion.

This discussion is about the criminality of what this girl did.

 

[hog88]

Do you have reason to believe that I'm mentally ill and prone to violence?

Bama fans have a propensity to follow the crowd, react violently when disappointed, claim to possess and see things that are not there, make up accomplishments to bolster their own sense of self worth and blame others for their own misdeeds. So I could reasonably say the odds point in that direction.

 

[bamawriter]

Bama fans have a propensity to follow the crowd, react violently when disappointed, claim to possess and see things that are not there, make up accomplishments to bolster their own sense of self worth and blame others for their own misdeeds. So I could reasonably say the odds point in that direction.

Then yes, you would share in the responsibility for killing my wife.

 

[hog88]

Then yes, you would share in the responsibility for killing my wife.

I just disagree. If a person is so mentally ill/disturbed or whatever you want to call it as to commit an act of violence of suicide from suggestion they need to be monitored and cared for as a child. Keeping predators such as this girl away from them.

 

[Give_All_Vol]

I just disagree. If a person is so mentally ill/disturbed or whatever you want to call it as to commit an act of violence of suicide from suggestion they need to be monitored and cared for as a child. Keeping predators such as this girl away from them.

I don't get how you can call her a predator yet not think legal recourse is necessary. And it's great that you have two kids that are happy and healthy. You should know that you are very lucky for that. This kid wasn't happy and healthy. And that's not something you just fix by being a good parent. Someone asked if you had kids to get you to put yourself in his parents shoes. I think if you were you wouldn't see things the way you do. I don't think this would be the first time someone was charged legally for manipulating another persons mind. Especially someone that wasn't of sound mind to begin with

 

[hog88]

I don't get how you can call her a predator yet not think legal recourse is necessary. And it's great that you have two kids that are happy and healthy. You should know that you are very lucky for that. This kid wasn't happy and healthy. And that's not something you just fix by being a good parent. Someone asked if you had kids to get you to put yourself in his parents shoes. I think if you were you wouldn't see things the way you do. I don't think this would be the first time someone was charged legally for manipulating another persons mind. Especially someone that wasn't of sound mind to begin with

What I get from this thread is the prevailing need for vengeance, not justice. I truly feel for the kids parents and cannot imagine the grief of losing a kid.

People manipulate others into bad, horrible life altering decisions every day in this country. That's a lot of people to prosecute.

 

[Give_All_Vol]

What I get from this thread is the prevailing need for vengeance, not justice. I truly feel for the kids parents and cannot imagine the grief of losing a kid.

People manipulate others into bad, horrible life altering decisions every day in this country. That's a lot of people to prosecute.

I gotta know now. What's the example you would use to compare to this incident?

 

[bamawriter]

What I get from this thread is the prevailing need for vengeance, not justice. I truly feel for the kids parents and cannot imagine the grief of losing a kid.

It's not vengeance. It's punishing someone for yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre.

 

[hog88]

It's not vengeance. It's punishing someone for yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre.

Come on, you can do better than that. The two are not comparable.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Same hypothetical I presented to hog:

I lie to you and say that I have your family tied up, and I am going to kill them unless you kill yourself. You have absolutely no way of knowing that I'm lying.

I have not actually done anything. My ultimatum is nothing but speech.

Am I responsible if you kill yourself to save your family?

I would think not. In your hypothetical somehow there is no communication between the guy and his family. How did that happen?mSomebody tells me they have my family hostage then I'm going to investigate rather than blindly blowing my brains out. How are you preventing the family or the guy to communicate without physical intervention of some sort?

 

[hog88]

I gotta know now. What's the example you would use to compare to this incident?

That's where you are making the mistake, trying to compare anything to this incident. I would say this is worse case scenario but when does the legal system stop at worse case?

Break it down. She didn't give him the means, she didn't give him a place, she didn't give him money, she didn't gain any money/benefit, she didn't provide any assistance or deny/prevent him from getting help. She talked him into it.

Huff mentioned civil action against her which I initially discarded but thinking about it that is where this case needs to be dealt with.

 

[Give_All_Vol]

I would think not. In your hypothetical somehow there is no communication between the guy and his family. How did that happen?mSomebody tells me they have my family hostage then I'm going to investigate rather than blindly blowing my brains out. How are you preventing the family or the guy to communicate without physical intervention of some sort?

It's part of the lie. The guy says "if you don't do it before you hang up the phone I'm killing them"

 

[hog88]

It's part of the lie. The guy says "if you don't do it before you hang up the phone I'm killing them"

So we are going to prosecute people for lying? Fraud generally requires that the person gain some tangible benefit from the lie.

 

[Give_All_Vol]

That's where you are making the mistake, trying to compare anything to this incident. I would say this is worse case scenario but when does the legal system stop at worse case?

Break it down. She didn't give him the means, she didn't give him a place, she didn't give him money, she didn't gain any money/benefit, she didn't provide any assistance or deny/prevent him from getting help. She talked him into it.

Huff mentioned civil action against her which I initially discarded but thinking about it that is where this case needs to be dealt with.

I might agree that civil court makes sense. Because there really are not plainly written laws against what happened to my knowledge. But I don't agree that this is worst case exactly. Manson or any cult leader that does this same thing to masses is worse probably, and I think at the very least it's related. Those people have been charged criminally so I don't think it's completely unprecedented

 

[Give_All_Vol]

So we are going to prosecute people for lying? Fraud generally requires that the person gain some tangible benefit from the lie.

Just plugging the loophole

 

[hog88]

I might agree that civil court makes sense. Because there really are not plainly written laws against what happened to my knowledge. But I don't agree that this is worst case exactly. Manson or any cult leader that does this same thing to masses is worse probably, and I think at the very least it's related. Those people have been charged criminally so I don't think it's completely unprecedented

I think Manson was in on the planning and preparation.

 

[Give_All_Vol]

I think Manson was in on the planning and preparation.

So was this girl...

Helped research methods that he could use. Helped him decide where to go. And what time of day to do it.

Idk maybe my line and yours are just in different places

 

[hog88]

So was this girl...

Helped research methods that he could use. Helped him decide where to go. And what time of day to do it.

Idk maybe my line and yours are just in different places

I completely understand WHY people want her punished legally. Heck if his mom took her out, I'm good with it.

 

[bamawriter]

Come on, you can do better than that. The two are not comparable.

Actually, they're practically identical:

A person yells "fire" in a crowded theatre with the full knowledge that his words could result in injury or even death.

This girl repeatedly said "kill yourself" with the full knowledge that her words could result in injury or even death.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I might agree that civil court makes sense. Because there really are not plainly written laws against what happened to my knowledge. But I don't agree that this is worst case exactly. Manson or any cult leader that does this same thing to masses is worse probably, and I think at the very least it's related. Those people have been charged criminally so I don't think it's completely unprecedented

Charlie also used physical abuse of many of his followers as part of his package of coercion. He didn't just phone in his influence.

 

[bamawriter]

I would think not. In your hypothetical somehow there is no communication between the guy and his family. How did that happen?mSomebody tells me they have my family hostage then I'm going to investigate rather than blindly blowing my brains out. How are you preventing the family or the guy to communicate without physical intervention of some sort?

I tell you that any attempt to contact them will result in their deaths.

 

[bamawriter]

So we are going to prosecute people for lying? Fraud generally requires that the person gain some tangible benefit from the lie.

The tangible benefit is I want the guy I'm lying to dead.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Actually, they're practically identical:

A person yells "fire" in a crowded theatre with the full knowledge that his words could result in injury or even death.

This girl repeatedly said "kill yourself" with the full knowledge that her words could result in injury or even death.

Yelling "FIRE" probably isn't going to result in manslaughter convictions. It's more like calling in a bomb threat... probably some other criminal laws are in play. Private conversations between a boyfriend/girlfriend are very different from behavior that endangers the public.