Give the devil his due (Kiffin)

#78
#78
Kiffin did a good job of improving players, and our offense as a hole, last year. Im not going to lie, I like what I saw last year. It led me to believe we were going to be back on top sooner than expected. The recruiting violations were a little scary though, I must admit.

Bottom Line: Kiffin is gone, and is no longer relevant to UT football anymore. CDD is at the helm now, and he deserves our support until he proves otherwise. I feel the same optimism with CDD that I did when Kiffin was here.

Bottom Bottom Line: GO VOLS!
 
#79
#79
SGMVols said:
Fulmer definitely micromanaged the offense with Clawson.
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That is true.. I can't argue that part, but I thought Clawson ran the Clawfense.. I could be wrong, but I thought several players complained it was to confusing when he called the plays as they were sure what to do and who to block..
 
#80
#80
Oh, and will the mods please move all future Kiffin threads into the "around the NCAA" forum?

What would it take to get that done?
 
#81
#81
SGMVols said:
Which one went an entire decade without winning any kind of championship?
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Which one has NEVER won a championship? I thought it was time for Fulmer to leave and I think Kiffin did make us more disciplined, but you sir need to keep your nose out of Kiffin's ass. You really need to think about switching allegiances.
 
#82
#82
UTMark said:
Which one has NEVER won a championship? I thought it was time for Fulmer to leave and I think Kiffin did make us more disciplined, but you sir need to keep your nose out of Kiffin's ass. You really need to think about switching allegiances.
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If Kiffin coaches USC for 10 years and never wins his conference, I'll put him in the same boat as Fulmer. Of course, he won't be allowed a decade of mediocrity at USC. They actually have standards.
 
#84
#84
I don't really think it's "higher standards" as much as it was a bonehead move to keep Fulmer around so long.
 
#85
#85
SGMVols said:
If Kiffin coaches USC for 10 years and never wins his conference, I'll put him in the same boat as Fulmer. Of course, he won't be allowed a decade of mediocrity at USC. They actually have standards.
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I am by no means a Fulmerite, but even Fulmer has won more championships than LK has.. I honestly don't know the answer, but I don't think Kiffin even has a .500 record if you included all of his Head coaching experience... He barely got over .500 last year and he had a "Legend" coaching the Defense..

LK should win his conference 7 or 8 times at SC...

There is a huge difference in winnng the SEC at UT then there is winning the conference at USC.. I don't think you could even compare the 2 of them..

Can you honestly say that Fulmer or anyone else couldn't win the conference at USC.. Hell you or me would have a good shot at winning the conference if we were at USC...
 
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#86
#86
I think you have to be objective . Kiffin has proved himself to be a miserable person , he probably would have gotten us investigated and eventually in at least some sort of trouble with the NCAA ...

What he did on the field was great . That was a 5 win team against one of the toughest schedules in the country

The team improved in every catagory

Players improved to some degree at every position ...barring injury . Some improved drastically. The offensive line , QB , RB , the defense was improved at times.

Recruiting was instantly improved and we were headed for a top 5 class before his impromptu exodus.

I know some of you wanted 10 wins ...but some things you have to keep in mind : JC was not a ready made QB when the season started. He was a very managed QB that came into his own during the last quarter of the Auburn game...after 3 losses. No defensive line depth , linebacker injuries and no depth there. These would be very difficult things for any coach to over come and be consistant.

I am pulling for Dooley all the way . I do question some of his recruiting tactics ...but we shall see , he seems like a smart guy so maybe he knows better than my doubts. Given that he is up against a very similar situation in season 1 that the Kiffens faced in their fist season ( tough schedule , no offensive line , no QB , no established running back , defensive line depth ) I would expect and be very pleased with 7-6 if they can pull it off ...even if they lose to a top 5 program in a bowl. They seem to have a more established receiving and LB core at this point ...so maybe we can pull it off . If we do ...we should all sing their praises.
 
#87
#87
majic73 said:
I think you have to be objective . Kiffin has proved himself to be a miserable person , he probably would have gotten us investigated and eventually in at least some sort of trouble with the NCAA ...

What he did on the field was great . That was a 5 win team against one of the toughest schedules in the country

The team improved in every catagory

Players improved to some degree at every position ...barring injury . Some improved drastically. The offensive line , QB , RB , the defense was improved at times.

Recruiting was instantly improved and we were headed for a top 5 class before his impromptu exodus.

I know some of you wanted 10 wins ...but some things you have to keep in mind : JC was not a ready made QB when the season started. He was a very managed QB that came into his own during the last quarter of the Auburn game...after 3 losses. No defensive line depth , linebacker injuries and no depth there. These would be very difficult things for any coach to over come and be consistant.

I am pulling for Dooley all the way . I do question some of his recruiting tactics ...but we shall see , he seems like a smart guy so maybe he knows better than my doubts. Given that he is up against a very similar situation in season 1 that the Kiffens faced in their fist season ( tough schedule , no offensive line , no QB , no established running back , defensive line depth ) I would expect and be very pleased with 7-6 if they can pull it off ...even if they lose to a top 5 program in a bowl. They seem to have a more established receiving and LB core at this point ...so maybe we can pull it off . If we do ...we should all sing their praises.
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Now I will agree with this part.. The dude could recruit.. I will give him credit for that part.. I always thought Yaw Yaw got to much credit for the recruiting side as LK was/is one of the best there is..

Sadly this is the only part I think he could/can do...
 
#88
#88
I don't understand why people find it necessary to bring up Kiffin's HC record. He was in situations where winning more than 50% of his games would be considered a pretty good coaching job.
 
#89
#89
Sudeepvol said:
I don't understand why people find it necessary to bring up Kiffin's HC record. He was in situations where winning more than 50% of his games would be considered a pretty good coaching job.
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I think it was because some people were judging his head coaching against PF.. What else are you going to base it on when you compare the 2 of them?

I'm still trying to figure why people act like he can walk on water.. He hasn't proven anything yet.. Surely he can win at USC, if not then he really sucks.. At least he will have an excuse if he looses now..
 
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#90
#90
SGMVols said:
Ask Nick Reveiz, Dan Williams, Chris Walker, Jacques McClendon, and Montario Hardesty how Kiffin didn't improve them at all.
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So you don't think that the position coaches had anything to do with that? Nah, they just worked with them for most of the practice every day. Was definately 100% kiffin's doing. He is the super coach, don't you know.
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#91
#91
zach0105 said:
So you don't think that the position coaches had anything to do with that? Nah, they just worked with them for most of the practice every day. Was definately 100% kiffin's doing. He is the super coach, don't you know.
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He just had those other coaches for recruiting purposes... :)
 
#92
#92
zach0105 said:
So you don't think that the position coaches had anything to do with that? Nah, they just worked with them for most of the practice every day. Was definately 100% kiffin's doing. He is the super coach, don't you know.
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Your point is that most coaches delegate and assign responsibilities ...they also hire to get the right guys for what they want to do and get them in the right positions.

So ...to be 100% unobjective...we will remove all credit from Kiffin for any success the team had or the individual players and assign that to the position coaches. We will then place any blame for any failure firmly on Kiffin.

Dooley has already hired his staff ...with your mindset ...his job is complete. He should just go home now and wait for the results to come in.
 
#93
#93
majic73 said:
Your point is that most coaches delegate and assign responsibilities ...they also hire to get the right guys for what they want to do and get them in the right positions.

So ...to be 100% unobjective...we will remove all credit from Kiffin for any success the team had or the individual players and assign that to the position coaches. We will then place any blame for any failure firmly on Kiffin.
Dooley has already hired his staff ...with your mindset ...his job is complete. He should just go home now and wait for the results to come in.
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So you mean we paid Monte over a mill. to tell people where to stand? Wow no wonder he was so happy...

For that kind of money he could at least played "Simon says" with them...
 
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#94
#94
cutnitclose said:
So you mean we paid Monte over a mill. to tell people where to stand? Wow no wonder he was so happy...

For that kind of money he could at least played "Simon says" with them...
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He's talking about Lane putting coaches in the right places...not what Monte did with players
 
#95
#95
cutnitclose said:
So you mean we paid Monte over a mill. to tell people where to stand? Wow no wonder he was so happy...

For that kind of money he could at least played "Simon says" with them...
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'get them in the right positions.' meaning get the coaches in the right positions to help the team

The coordinators do tell people where to stand and what to do when the QB says 'hut' For instance if the coach calls a double eagle stunt ...hopefully everyone knows where to stand. They should have been taught that in advance. I bet Monte drafted the play and called it , and delgated to his position coaches how to coach the individual positions , and then he coordinated and evaluated it and changed it as needed. That is usually how a program works.

I doubt Monte would have played Simons says ...he probably would have delegated that to a GA ...I bet Wilcox follows the same pattern
 
#96
#96
zach0105 said:
So you don't think that the position coaches had anything to do with that? Nah, they just worked with them for most of the practice every day. Was definately 100% kiffin's doing. He is the super coach, don't you know.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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And who hired those position coaches?
 
#97
#97
SGMVols said:
Which one went an entire decade without winning any kind of championship?
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Which one has never won a championship? Seriously dude, enough with the Kiffin love/Fulmer hate. At this point it's really reeeally old.
 
#98
#98
zach0105 said:
So you don't think that the position coaches had anything to do with that? Nah, they just worked with them for most of the practice every day. Was definately 100% kiffin's doing. He is the super coach, don't you know.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Well, using your arguement, let's assume that it was his asst. coaches. That is still an indictment on Fulmer because we were greeted with Jimmy Ray Stevens, Larry Slade and Kurt Roper while he was the HFC.
 
#99
#99
cutnitclose said:
So you mean we paid Monte over a mill. to tell people where to stand? Wow no wonder he was so happy...
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You have to crawl before you walk. Look at the previous 4 years under Fulmer and you would have realized that indeed, the players often times had no idea where they were supposed to be... the old Chinese fire drill analogy.
 
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#100
#100
I love the fact that people are arguing the degrees of mediocrity in here. 5-7 and 7-6 are not that different, just two wins a part, and it's no where near elite. Kiffin had things going in the right direction, but he wasn't a long term solution at UT and I think it's entirely possible that we could have struggled going 6-6 this year as well under him, which would have left even his biggest defenders wondering if he was the solution in the beginning. Now, we have Dooley, which has put together arguably the same type of staff as coaches, just unknowns in SEC recruiting right now, save Thompson and Dooley himself. There is no doubt in my mind that UT will be elite once again, but when and with whom that is has yet to be seen. It will never be with Lane Kiffin, period.
 
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