HBO's "Game of Thrones"

[BigOrange15]

Oh come on..don't do that bullcrap. I hate this direction, and I am aggravated that I wasted sooooo much time on this horrible horror freak show. There are good things in the world too, but this crapfest is a ugly, joyless and loveless..oh wait that is not really true..love and kindness are in the world, but they are just a weakness to be either zombified or burned alive..

Its baffling how in your world, quality is only related to the amount in which the good guys win and the power of friendship prevails. I can't wrap my head around it.

 

[Grand Vol]

Oh I agree... Was taking about it last week... All her closest advisors now gone, the two that are left one is conspiring behind her back and she didn't fully trust the other... The man in her life is turning her away...

It was mad queen on warp drive.

The seeds were planted along the way, throughout the show, sure. Just hated the rushed nature this felt like.

I've no problem with the story line tho. Just the execution of it these past couple episodes

It's not really rushed though. As has been stated, she's been doing evil things all along, just to even worse people so she seemed the "hero" in all of it.

The thing about it is, with only six episodes, there is no more character development. And frankly, there doesn't need to be. Everything we've seen in seven seasons prior to this is coming to fruition.

 

[bigdaddy]

Yeah...but now she burns a million people alive for no damn reason.

Nope, she realized she can’t be loved so she did it to be feared. In her blood.

 

[bigdaddy]

Oh come on..don't do that bullcrap. I hate this direction, and I am aggravated that I wasted sooooo much time on this horrible horror freak show. There are good things in the world too, but this crapfest is a ugly, joyless and loveless..oh wait that is not really true..love and kindness are in the world, but they are just a weakness to be either zombified or burned alive..

Just quit watching bro

 

[hog88]

Feels like they are just rushing to finish up the show with carnage and useless death. Piss poor episode last night that really did nothing for the story.

 

[zeppelin128]

"I am Daenerys Stormborn, of the blood of Old Valyria, and I will take what is mine, with fire and blood."

Season 2. It has been there all along, she just finally lost her struggle with it.

 

[zeppelin128]

Preview for next week had an Evil Empire takes over feel to it.

That was a really cool shot in the preview.

 

[RikidyBones]

I would really like some numbers on how much of the vitriol directed at this last season specifically is from people that have also read the books. I'm guessing it's a lot if not a large majority.

And? 🗣🗣thats what the show is based off of! Its not a spinoff. it's not an untold story. These characters have been deeply molded in story and in first person perspective. People have been in their thoughts and it created a compelling direction that seemed like key corners were cut, important things were ignored while being setup meticulously. One example, Azor Ahai... throw that entire back story away. That's like 90% of the Northern story. Poof. Gone because Arya was "a surprise". Is that on GRRM ? Maybe. But it was a gaffe. It's like GRRM went all annoying "twitter hot take" guy because he thinks its trendy and clever. it's not.

I think he lost money from his book release by this. I don't doubt the books will be different or make more sense to this ending but GOT fad may drop when the season ends significantly.

I also think it was stupid not to focus on getting 1 or 2(if three were necessary) books out before this. If people think the ending is stupid. Dont even worry about finishing any of the books. it wont have the craze it does now.

 

[Grand Vol]

"I am Daenerys Stormborn, of the blood of Old Valyria, and I will take what is mine, with fire and blood."

Season 2. It has been there all along, she just finally lost her struggle with it.

The question is whether Jon has had his "fire and blood" diluted enough to overcome such urges.

 

[BigOrange15]

And? 🗣🗣thats what the show is based off of! Its not a spinoff. it's not an untold story. These characters have been deeply molded in story and in first person perspective. People have been in their thoughts and it created a compelling direction that seemed like key corners were cut, important things were ignored while being setup meticulously. One example, Azor Ahai... throw that entire back story away. That's like 90% of the Northern story. Poof. Gone because Arya was "a surprise". Is that on GRRM ? Maybe. But it was a gaffe. It's like GRRM went all annoying "twitter hot take" guy because he thinks its trendy and clever. it's not.

I think he lost money from his book release by this. I don't doubt the books will be different or make more sense to this ending but GOT fad may drop when the season ends significantly.

I also think it was stupid not to focus on getting 1 or 2(if three were necessary) books out before this. If people think the ending is stupid. Dont even worry about finishing any of the books. it wont have the craze it does now.

...I just would like to know the numbers.

 

[RikidyBones]

The question is whether Jon has had his "fire and blood" diluted enough to overcome such urges.

I think he has. He views Ned as his father from an emotional perspective. The look he had when Dany was unfazed by burning Varys shows that his reference point was Ned and how he had a conflict about ending another life.

 

[RikidyBones]

...I just would like to know the numbers.

Unattainable but I'd reckon more book readers are pissed than folks who just watched the show.

 

[BigOrange15]

Unattainable but I'd reckon more book readers are pissed than folks who just watched the show.

Anecdotally, it seems like a LOT more.

 

[drvenner]

I would really like some numbers on how much of the vitriol directed at this last season specifically is from people that have also read the books. I'm guessing it's a lot if not a large majority.

Likely. But GRRM has said they are following his outline pretty well. So , I'm pissed at him, too. I think also many people just want something of a happy ending and are disappointed it's apparently not going to be one.

 

[RikidyBones]

Likely. But GRRM has said they are following his outline pretty well. So , I'm pissed at him, too. I think also many people just want something of a happy ending and are disappointed it's apparently not going to be one.

I'm only asking for one that makes sense.

 

[BigOrange15]

Likely. But GRRM has said they are following his outline pretty well. So , I'm pissed at him, too. I think also many people just want something of a happy ending and are disappointed it's apparently not going to be one.

If people read/watched GoT and expected a happy ending, I kind of feel like that might be on them a little bit lol

 

[jakez4ut]

It's not really rushed though. As has been stated, she's been doing evil things all along, just to even worse people so she seemed the "hero" in all of it.

The thing about it is, with only six episodes, there is no more character development. And frankly, there doesn't need to be. Everything we've seen in seven seasons prior to this is coming to fruition.

like i said, i don't disagree. it's these last two episodes that felt rushed...7 seasons of going back and forth with her evolving in to what so many believed would be a great leader....... i've no problem with her story arc.

and as soon as they killed missande last week, i kinda figured that'd be the end of KL.

couple things i did like, i thought it was cool that htey included the wild fire in many of the explosions....mad queen doing what daddy didn't get the chance to.....

her story in this has just been one big tragedy...which is fine....i doubt the mad king started out "mad" either..... she's annakin skywalker....though i don't know that she gets the chance to come back to the light at this point....lol.

i didn't hate the episode...but it was my least favorite of the season.....i enjoyed the glegane battle. i enjoyed watching the dragon light up the iron fleet and hte outer walls of KL....hated how they ended cerci and jamie....that fell flat imo....but probably poetic they went out together, alone.

 

[zeppelin128]

The question is whether Jon has had his "fire and blood" diluted enough to overcome such urges.

I think so. Like utvols88 posted, Ned may not be his biological father, but Jon is basically a still with his head younger Ned. He's beaten down, broody, world-weary, and the reluctant hero, same as Ned. I think Jon would be perfectly content going North of the wall and hanging out with Tormund and Ghost. But his sense of honor won't allow him. That may be his death sentence, same as Ned.

 

[JCP201]

I am over being mad-- it is what it is. If Martin has the books finished soon, I'll read them. otherwise probably not. Don't know about the spinoff.

In the end, Cercei and Dany are not that far apart, perhaps Cercei is even better because she didn't want to kill Ned, that was Joffrey.

Anyway, who sent that horse for Arya? Any ideas?

 

[BigOrange15]

I am over being mad-- it is what it is. If Martin has the books finished soon, I'll read them. otherwise probably not. Don't know about the spinoff.

In the end, Cercei and Dany are not that far apart, perhaps Cercei is even better because she didn't want to kill Ned, that was Joffrey.

Anyway, who sent that horse for Arya? Any ideas?

I saw a theory that Bran warged into it.

 

[Grand Vol]

I think so. Like utvols88 posted, Ned may not be his biological father, but Jon is basically a still with his head younger Ned. He's beaten down, broody, world-weary, and the reluctant hero, same as Ned. I think Jon would be perfectly content going North of the wall and hanging out with Tormund and Ghost. But his sense of honor won't allow him. That may be his death sentence, same as Ned.

Things do have a way of coming full circle in the series. Jon has become Ned. Now the burning question will be whether he takes the throne for himself as Cersei described to Ned in Season 1.

 

[zeppelin128]

If people read/watched GoT and expected a happy ending, I kind of feel like that might be on them a little bit lol

A happy ending would piss me off honestly, it isn't true to the world and tone of the story.

 

[RikidyBones]

like i said, i don't disagree. it's these last two episodes that felt rushed...7 seasons of going back and forth with her evolving in to what so many believed would be a great leader....... i've no problem with her story arc.

and as soon as they killed missande last week, i kinda figured that'd be the end of KL.

couple things i did like, i thought it was cool that htey included the wild fire in many of the explosions....mad queen doing what daddy didn't get the chance to.....

her story in this has just been one big tragedy...which is fine....i doubt the mad king started out "mad" either..... she's annakin skywalker....though i don't know that she gets the chance to come back to the light at this point....lol.

i didn't hate the episode...but it was my least favorite of the season.....i enjoyed the glegane battle. i enjoyed watching the dragon light up the iron fleet and hte outer walls of KL....hated how they ended cerci and jamie....that fell flat imo....but probably poetic they went out together, alone.

theyll try to act like it was poetic but it was flat out stupid and a missed opportunity. My thoughts on how it should have gone down..

Cleagane bowl is fine, Dany flipping is fine but I would have liked to see

Dany kills Euron during the battle with her dragon but before she goes into the keep.

If we are going away from book prophecy, Arya not suddenly quit her quest to kill Cersei at her doorstep but rather meet her after she bolts the Cleagane bowl. Cersei pleads for Arya to spare her but when its obvious that arya is unfazed, Cersei starts to get nasty and Arya stabs her in the throat with needle.

Dany is then killed by Jamie in the throne room, who is wandering the keep and finds Cersei dead to complete the Mad Queen arc, Jon then stabs Jamie and Jamie has a few redeeming words about Mad King/Queen garbage before Jon just leaves him to die.

something like that. idk.

 

[jakez4ut]

I think an article I read earlier summed up Dany's turn pretty well:

"Remember Dany’s first instinct when Meereen was under bombardment by the slave cities? “I will crucify the masters,” she declared. “I will set their fleets afire. I will kill every last one of their soldiers and return their cities to the dirt. That's my plan.” Tyrion talked her out of it. At the time we thought, Well, she probably didn’t really mean it. But she did. She’s said other things like this too along the way. In season 2 she promised, “We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground.”

There were plenty of moments in previous seasons to support Daenerys going Mad Queen. Has the show been a bit tricky in playing her murderous moments as heroic and only recently seemed to want us to question them? Perhaps. But I wouldn’t say GoT is trying to suddenly push the idea that Dany is bad so much as doing exactly what a good drama does in its final act — putting its protagonist to the ultimate test. And in doing so, what GoT is actually pushing is a debate about Dany’s morality, bringing that question into the foreground after letting it sit in the background for so long.
We think Daenerys is a good person because she’s happily made so many benevolent choices to try and make the world a better place. Those choices tended to be made when Daenerys was feeling calm and secure. When you have two armies and three dragons it’s easy to decide you’re going to banish slavery because you can. But the show has pretty consistently shown that when Daenerys gets really angry she rather nimbly leaps to “kill them all in the most painful way possible” as the best solution regardless of whether it’s justified or not. And she’s never been angrier than she is now.
Since season 7, Dany’s lost two dragons, her two most trusted friends and advisors (Ser Jorah and Missandei), and has gone from ruling a land where she was worshiped to a continent where — as she puts it — nobody loves her. Dany didn’t seem like she needed that big of a push to nuke a city, and the final season has given her a really hard shove.

all good points. and the difference between what she did in Essos vs. Westeros was the liberation of the Essos cities and it's slaves. i think it was pretty clear upon her arrival in Westeros, no one really needed liberating. she was there to conquer. it's still a curious path to believe in liberating those cities in the East, to be their mother....and get to KL and have zero issue, mad as she may be at that point, and burn everyone, indiscriminantly.

she was actually probably fortunate that there was the WW threat that got her "in" with the North, fragile as that may have been.

otherwise, it may have been a battle as soon as she set foot on Dragonstone. there was no way she was going to win hearts and minds in Westeros, and even with the win over the WW, she gave no time for politics to even play a part. plus, they were so effective at thwarting that threat, that those in the South never even knew how big a threat that was to begin with...it didn't happen to them, so they probably wouldn't have ever seen the value.

LSS, whereas with the other main players for the throne, that played the game....Dany was never going to be part of that, and by her own admision of wanting to break that wheel, i guess you could definitely argue that there was never going to be a nuanced story for her on this side of the ocean.

so short of being angry about the episode, and i'm not, there were a few things missing, as a fan, that fell flat...a) you don't, and never were, going to get that game played with Dany as a center figure like you did with pretty much every other main character....b) for the most part, i don't think you got the satisfaction you wanted in some of the deaths that occurred....aside from the gleganes, i really wanted Euron's niece to take him out....i guess she's done, just chillin' on the iron isles? definitely didn't get the kinda death for jamie and cerci you wanted, no big confrotation, just very unceremoniously taken out....i'm like Sansa....i guess we'll never get to see her executed....talk about some foreshadowing lol.

i did like how quybon got got though...that was funny.

anywho......

 

[zeppelin128]

Things do have a way of coming full circle in the series. Jon has become Ned. Now the burning question will be whether he takes the throne for himself as Cersei described to Ned in Season 1.

Jon "breaking the wheel" may be the death of him and Dany. King's Landing in ashes and the Seven Kingdoms go back to self-rule.
Just a random thought, but this seems more in line with the tone of the story. Yes the wheel would be broken, but at what cost? Was it worth it in the long run? Would it even be broken? Martin is big on cyclical narratives and people repeating the mistakes of their forbearers. They might break the wheel temporarily only to have the whole thing start up again in the future with seven warring factions fighting over a pile of bricks.