HBO's "Game of Thrones"

[Rishvol]

One more point...Dany doesn't want Jon to say he's Aegon cause of his claim to the throne, but she wants Jon to be her husband? Wouldn't that ALSO MEAN HE'S THE KING...

Yes but since she's the "rightful ruler" then people must listen to her over Jon. If Aegon is King then she loses all of her power

 

[zjcvols]

See here's the thing...the "plot armor" that has driven some fans crazy.

From the start of this season we've seen it. First you get Jorah who despite riding into the dark with the Dothraki as they get snuffed out survives. Why? So he can be there to rescue Dany and die in her arms. Then you got Tyrion and Sansa in the crypt neither is in danger why? because they both have to survive so Tyrion can be told about Jon. Then despite the Iron Fleet decimating Dany's boats & killing her dragon both Greyworm and Missandie survive.

I knew Dany was going to likely go full on mad queen, they've planted numerous seeds and made it more pressing this season. But how they delivered the "twist" was just not well done, at all. The fact Euron captured Missandie and that is who Cersei then executed in front of Dany was the easy/fast/rushed way to push the button.

Now we're back into typical hollywood ending, the knight in shining armor MAN is going to be the savior of the Westeros. I mean Jon Snow is a great character, but I really thought Martin's direction (especially in the books) was to drive home a woman savior. He develops his female characters with so much more depth than most writers and the show destroyed that last night for two of them.

Yes, how dare a show keep its main characters alive.

And you’re complaining about Missandie surviving in the same episode she was later killed in???

 

[n_huffhines]

Yeah but that's a "why can't storm troopers shoot straight?" type of complaint. There has to be some allowance for 'plot armor' in a fantasy show like this. What they did with Jamie's character this season is more troubling. It didn't follow a consistent pattern of development.

Sure, but how hard is it to write a scenario where they could credibly harpoon one of the dragons? Doesn't seem like that tall of a task.

 

[jakez4ut]

I don't know if I would call that battle "so effective at thwarting." Winterfell was completely overrun, the women and children in the crypts were about to be devoured, one dragon was down, Jon was about to get the freeze-breath, and Bran+the memory of Westeros were 2 seconds from being erased by the NK ... Until Arya did her thing

yeah, maybe poor choice of words there i guess. how about swiftly? i don't think anyone thought that would be a 1 battle war......going no further south than winterfell.....

 

[jakez4ut]

To me that makes the last episode even dumber because she should have known to do that the first time.

they were ambushed the last episode, planned attack this time....granted, it could have been a relatively easy adjustment to make in the last episode, but the difference between the two was the ambush tactic vs. the planned attack this time.

 

[VolNExile]

So assuming that Danynis Dany is killed next episode, and not by having Drogon shot down under her, what does Drogon do? *My phone is incapable of dealing with GoT names

• Die of grief? (We saw him sympathetically curl himself around Dany when Jorah died.)
• Flame everyone out, and he’s the winner?
• Accept Jon or Tyrion as a new rider, assuming that either of them survive?
• Go hunting with Ghost and Nymeria?

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Yes but since she's the "rightful ruler" then people must listen to her over Jon. If Aegon is King then she loses all of her power

Literally not at all, once through 8 seasons has a woman Queen (with a husband) been treated as ruler. Cersei was the Queen and the entire series was based on the attempts to unseat her because she was a woman.


I get that Aegon & Dany would have been different than Jon & Dany, but the only way she truly "rules" as Queen is without a husband.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Yes, how dare a show keep its main characters alive.

And you’re complaining about Missandie surviving in the same episode she was later killed in???

If that doesn't scream "rushed and poorly written" then I don't know what does...

And the show was built on killing its main characters, did you forget this? They made their rules and have now abandoned them it's the most glaring thing that proves the writers and Martin aren't anywhere close to on the same page.

 

[zjcvols]

One more point...Dany doesn't want Jon to say he's Aegon cause of his claim to the throne, but she wants Jon to be her husband? Wouldn't that ALSO MEAN HE'S THE KING...

Yes but not the ruler and she unites the North.

 

[zjcvols]

If that doesn't scream "rushed and poorly written" then I don't know what does...

And the show was built on killing its main characters, did you forget this? They made their rules and have now abandoned them it's the most glaring thing that proves the writers and Martin aren't anywhere close to on the same page.

They’ve killed Cersei, Jamie, Jorah, Missandei, Theon. That’s five right there.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

Sure, but how hard is it to write a scenario where they could credibly harpoon one of the dragons? Doesn't seem like that tall of a task.

We all knew Scorpions weren't the ultimate because of aiming and reload speed so I could buy that Dany (with a proper plan of attack) on her dragon could take them out, BUT the first introduction of the weapons was like watching fish in a barrel get picked off. Super fast reloads, accurate, devastating.

Sure it was an ambush, but you could have let Dany light up SOME of the Iron Fleet during the original confrontation the "ah-ha" moment where she figures out how to beat the Scorpions. We saw no planning of the attack last night, how did she become so clever with no planning?

 

[RikidyBones]

They’ve killed Cersei, Jamie, Jorah, Missandei, Theon. That’s five right there.

The hound is dead, Qyburn is dead, Varys. Two of those characters have been present the entire way.

I can get over alot of last nights episode but I cant get over the nut punch on Cersei and Jamie. That will forever make me hate a part of GOT.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

They’ve killed Cersei, Jamie, Jorah, Missandei, Theon. That’s five right there.

Waited until the next to last episode in the last season they spent 2 years filming to do it though...

You're welcome to not agree with me. My 2 biggest gripes with this season are rushing story and removing the mystery in who may die.

 

[kiddiedoc]

They’ve killed Cersei, Jamie, Jorah, Missandei, Theon. That’s five right there.

+ The Hound, the Mountain, Varys, Euron, and Qyburn.

 

[jakez4ut]

We all knew Scorpions weren't the ultimate because of aiming and reload speed so I could buy that Dany (with a proper plan of attack) on her dragon could take them out, BUT the first introduction of the weapons was like watching fish in a barrel get picked off. Super fast reloads, accurate, devastating.

Sure it was an ambush, but you could have let Dany light up SOME of the Iron Fleet during the original confrontation the "ah-ha" moment where she figures out how to beast the Scorpions. We saw no planning of the attack last night, how did she become so clever with no planning?

i think it's safe to assume the planning was implied. there's a lot we didn't see leading up to what happened at KL. last episode the hound and Ayra are riding out of Winterfel, barely in to this episode they're walking thru the gates. there was a whole season dedicated to their journey from KL to the North.....

they've purposely left a lot out of this part of the story.....some of it for good reason, some not.

 

[Grand Vol]

Very dumb of Cersei; even Missandie told her to light King's Landing up. After losing Jorah, she was all that was left to keep Dany from succumbing to her true self. There was no one left to guide her to being the breaker of chains, so she became the mother of dragons. Their deaths were the breaking point for Dany.

I understand why people think her turn was sudden and jarring, but I think it has been boiling within her for a long time. Then, she comes to Westeros, loses the two people she loves most, along with two children, a trusted advisor commits treason against her, and the dude she loves nephew-zones her.

She's always struggled with her heritage, obsession, and inner nature, now she's dealing with rage, grief, paranoia. She lost the struggle.

It reminded me of one of my favorite lines from the Sopranos, when Tony tells Christopher, "You don't have to love me, but you WILL respect me."

I chuckled hard at that term.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

they were ambushed the last episode, planned attack this time....granted, it could have been a relatively easy adjustment to make in the last episode, but the difference between the two was the ambush tactic vs. the planned attack this time.

Even in an ambush, you send scouts out ahead to make sure you aren't going into a trap.

 

[jakez4ut]

Even in an ambush, you send scouts out ahead to make sure you aren't going into a trap.

wait, what? the ambush....is the trap......

and wasn't my point. just that that's why there was a difference in tactics from one episode to the next.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

wait, what? the ambush....is the trap......

and wasn't my point. just that that's why there was a difference in tactics from one episode to the next.

Edit: hang on I don't think we're on the same page.

I'm talking about Dany didn't send out any scouts or do any scouting in the previous attack, and walked right into the ambush. To me that was really, really stupid and bad writing.

 

[LotteryPick]

All the more reason for it not to happen. Lazy writing, IMO.

How though?

I think it would be stupid to just neglect her lineage and allow her to be this precious little ruler of the Iron Throne.

This (again) has been built up for many seasons. The actual turn happened quickly, which is a legitimate qualm, but this is her underlying character traits coming to the forefront.

 

[drvenner]

How though?

I think it would be stupid to just neglect her lineage and allow her to be this precious little ruler of the Iron Throne.

This (again) has been built up for many seasons. The actual turn happened quickly, which is a legitimate qualm, but this is her underlying character traits coming to the forefront.

I can see both sides. I'm likely biased because I wanted to see her overcome her lineage like Rhaegar did.

 

[MoCo_Vol]

How though?

I think it would be stupid to just neglect her lineage and allow her to be this precious little ruler of the Iron Throne.

This (again) has been built up for many seasons. The actual turn happened quickly, which is a legitimate qualm, but this is her underlying character traits coming to the forefront.

Yeah, that's my stance on it. I'm not mad Dany went Mad King...have been expecting it, they did a great job of making me think she wouldn't though early on and I applaud the writing there. But I would have liked for more cracks to be more obvious earlier in the series I think.

 

[drvenner]

I just wanted what was promised.. bittersweet. The story of Turin Turambar is one of my favorites, I can take sad and tragic as part of larger tale of hope...Tolkien knew how to weave those together beautifully.

Martin fooled me..there is nothing beautiful in his tale.

The fact that there's nothing beautiful in life is likely what he is trying to say.

 

[drvenner]

Martin is a good writer, but Tolkien is on a completely different level.
Few writers can weave sadness, tragedy, and hope like Tolkien.
Martin is much more brutally realistic in his portrayal of human nature. It is meant to be unsettling because we know how true it is to reality, even with Three Eyed Ravens and dragons. It is a cynical outlook on humanity, but there is a lot of truth to it.

Truth about humanity is not always the best approach when writing A FANTASY novel.

 

[kiddiedoc]

I think maybe we need to suspend reality a bit when discussing a fantasy series... It's almost a little funny that we are debating the battle tactics of a woman that can't be burned who rides a dragon. Not to mention: those scorpions were awfully accurate/effective at such as distance last episode to be huge rudimentary crossbows with hand-forged bolts.