HBO's "Game of Thrones"

#9,476
#9,476
She's tried going the nice ruler route and nobody accepted that. She was continually challenged in Essos.

Most in Westeros don't want her there. She has little to no allies.

She probably had been bouncing around the feelings but made her decision with her statement to Jon after their failed kiss. "Alright then, let it be fear."

She could have ended things when the bells rang. They focused on her like she was contemplating that decision. Ending the attack would be kind. She's going the fear based ruler route and gave in to her anger about her friends and dragons deaths and torched KL to let them know nobody should challenge her.

Her mercy is to future generations. Not today's.
 
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#9,477
#9,477
Ulysees E. McGill said:
So...Did Dany really go "mad"..Or did she just go Ghengis Khan at Samarkand? I buy the Khan idea much easier than the weak minded Mad King Aerys hearing voices idea. Either one is ridiculous to me, but Dany has never shown an inclination toward weak minded insanity, while she has been shown to be ruthless.
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i don't think it implies she's weak minded. i think it says she can be a victim of circumstance. one of those circumstances being that she has displayed a predisposition to "violence first" in her decision making process.

to the contrary of being weak minded, she was self aware enough to know she needed guidance. she sought it out. and in many cases she heeded that advice, over her initial, more violent, first choice.

but when left to her own devices, she's chosen violence.

and the rage she now feels at the whole situation....took over, and acted accordingly. violence first...and a lot of it.

i wonder how the dynamic changes in this last episode if Jorah is still alive....?

i think the interesting part is that despite all the advice she was given, again, a lot of it she heeded....when push came to shove, she doesn't fall back on any of it or her relevant experience...she kinda runs home to mama in her decision making.

almost like Jorah was her conscience....w/out him, she had none. more manic than weak minded. highs are really high....on the boat w/Jon everything is wonderful.....but......lows are really low...not eating in Dragonstone, contemplating buring it the ground.......
 
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#9,478
#9,478
BigOrange15 said:
I honestly believe that had this and last season been given the episodes this story deserved and these characters been given to time progress to landing where they have, everyone would be far more accepting of what has transpired. As it stands, although the progressions make sense imo, they feel unearned because this show has just turned into rushing past plot checkpoints to get here instead of letting these characters progress to where they are now. Unfortunately, I think that will always be a cloud that hangs over this show.
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I dont understand why everyone is saying this season is being rushed and needed more time to progress. We've gotten 7 season of build up for all of these characters. I dont need 5 episodes of Arya and the Hound on horseback riding to to KL for example. Season 8 has been what the previous 7 seasons have built up to. People just want more and usually the more people get, the more they have to complain about. Just look at TWD for example.
 
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#9,479
#9,479
Ulysees E. McGill said:
Ok...after much thought...I am just mad because...they got me. I expected Daenarys to be a ruthless conqueror if it came down to it, she obviously had that in her from all of the POV chapters, but I did not see an indiscriminate, baby burning lunatic with no conscience or compassion for the weak and downtrodden. She also ALWAYS has had that in her heart.

That is why I'm so upset, and it is a justified criticism no matter what any of you say, but I apologize for going thermo about it.
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Welcome back d4h
 
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#9,480
#9,480
eVOLve said:
I dont understand why everyone is saying this season is being rushed and needed more time to progress. We've gotten 7 season of build up for all of these characters. I dont need 5 episodes of Arya and the Hound on horseback riding to to KL for example. Season 8 has been what the previous 7 seasons have built up to. People just want more and usually the more people get, the more they have to complain about. Just look at TWD for example.
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TWD has multiple 16 episode seasons. That is too many for that show and would be too many for GoT imo. To me, 10 was perfect.
 
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#9,481
#9,481
jakez4ut said:
i don't think it implies she's weak minded. i think it says she can be a victim of circumstance. one of those circumstances being that she has displayed a predisposition to "violence first" in her decision making process.

to the contrary of being weak minded, she was self aware enough to know she needed guidance. she sought it out. and in many cases she heeded that advice, over her initial, more violent, first choice.

but when left to her own devices, she's chosen violence.

and the rage she now feels at the whole situation....took over, and acted accordingly. violence first...and a lot of it.

i wonder how the dynamic changes in this last episode if Jorah is still alive....?

i think the interesting part is that despite all the advice she was given, again, a lot of it she heeded....when push came to shove, she doesn't fall back on any of it or her relevant experience...she kinda runs home to mama in her decision making.

almost like Jorah was her conscience....w/out him, she had none. more manic than weak minded. highs are really high....on the boat w/Jon everything is wonderful.....but......lows are really low...not eating in Dragonstone, contemplating buring it the ground.......
Click to expand...

They just made her Ghengis Khan, Tamerlane and Attila all rolled into one...with nuclear weapons to boot.
 
#9,485
#9,485
Ulysees E. McGill said:
So you sorta feel like I do..That she is not clinically insane, that she just gave into her impulses and became a completely evil, indiscriminate and ruthless dictator? And you buy that?
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I'm pretty sure her coin has landed.

Here's the thing, Ruck. Everything we're seeing at the moment has been seen in previous seasons. However, everyone thought cute, cuddly Dany was incapable of such things. Seriously? How often did she automatically go to the "we're gonna burn you to the ground if you don't help us!" speech? Standing at the gates of Qarth she threatened them with death and destruction. And did it again when she didn't get the ships she wanted. How often was violence her first thought on anything when something stood in her way? Remember, violent tendencies run in her family. Yes, she has the blood of dragons which means fire and indiscriminate death are in her blood. Yes, she has shown the capability for impulsive evil behavior. There's the Yunkai thing. She crucified how many noblemen in Meereen? The moment she took control of the Unsullied she decided "meh, you masters should die..." on a whim.

Yes, she's entirely capable of being pure evil when she wants. And what has happened in a short period of time?

She lost two of her "children." She lost the one man (Jorah) who ever could talk sense into her. She got Aunt-zoned by the man she thought she was in love with. Now that man is a potential threat to her rule she's worked so hard to achieve over the last seven years. She lost her most trusted adviser that's been with her for the past six years and watched her get beheaded. She is getting "advice" from a man literally trained to follow orders and visit violence on others. She feels the other two people that have given her advice have betrayed her, having one die by fire. She's also questioned the judgment of the other all the way back to Episode 1 of this season. She's worked so hard for seven years to get to the throne, now that it's within reach, she will not have anyone, even Jon Snow who she thought she loved, stand in her way. Yes, she knows the people will never love her and she must instill fear into those who would oppose her.

Yes, I buy adorable little Daenerys Targaryen is entirely capable of the things she just did.
 
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#9,486
#9,486
Guys I seriously thought that Davos was gonna get killed by a random wild fire explosion.

I was sooooo scared when they went from the frame of Jon sheathing his sword and telling everyone to fall back to Davos standing there looking around.

It had that camera angle of when someone's gonna die

/rant
 
#9,487
#9,487
Grand Vol said:
I'm pretty sure her coin has landed.

Here's the thing, Ruck. Everything we're seeing at the moment has been seen in previous seasons. However, everyone thought cute, cuddly Dany was incapable of such things. Seriously? How often did she automatically go to the "we're gonna burn you to the ground if you don't help us!" speech? Standing at the gates of Qarth she threatened them with death and destruction. And did it again when she didn't get the ships she wanted. How often was violence her first thought on anything when something stood in her way? Remember, violent tendencies run in her family. Yes, she has the blood of dragons which means fire and indiscriminate death are in her blood. Yes, she has shown the capability for impulsive evil behavior. There's the Yunkai thing. She crucified how many noblemen in Meereen? The moment she took control of the Unsullied she decided "meh, you masters should die..." on a whim.

Yes, she's entirely capable of being pure evil when she wants. And what has happened in a short period of time?

She lost two of her "children." She lost the one man (Jorah) who ever could talk sense into her. She got Aunt-zoned by the man she thought she was in love with. Now that man is a potential threat to her rule she's worked so hard to achieve over the last seven years. She lost her most trusted adviser that's been with her for the past six years and watched her get beheaded. She is getting "advice" from a man literally trained to follow orders and visit violence on others. She feels the other two people that have given her advice have betrayed her, having one die by fire. She's also questioned the judgment of the other all the way back to Episode 1 of this season. She's worked so hard for seven years to get to the throne, now that it's within reach, she will not have anyone, even Jon Snow who she thought she loved, stand in her way. Yes, she knows the people will never love her and she must instill fear into those who would oppose her.

Yes, I buy adorable little Daenerys Targaryen is entirely capable of the things she just did.
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Burning babies...on purpose? Not as collateral fog of war type stuff...on purpose.
 
#9,489
#9,489
I think the fan upset is more that GAME OF THRONES is going from one of the greatest shows, to a really good show due to rushed writing. Tyrion/Varys? Tyrion tells him about Jon and then rats him out shortly after because he did what it was obvious he was going to do. Jaime going North where everyone hates him to fight the Night King, to saying he doesn't care about anyone but Cersei. Also, as McGill said-- Dany stopped her quest for the throne to help everyone with the Night King, and now she is worse than Cercei, Little Finger, Ramsey, Joffrey, etc.

It's like someone ripped out the last few chapters of the book and just left the end.
 
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#9,493
#9,493
Here's why I personally disliked the "how" Dany went full burn 'em all mode. I don't mind that she did it, I expected it...but this is why I don't like execution of it

1. She "snapped" for revenge on Cersei, yet never directly attacked the Red Keep to hit Cersei (why? sloppy writing plot needed Cersei and company to make escape for Hound vs Mountain & Jaime rescue attempt)
2. Why was Cersei given this humanizing moment where she started crying watching her city/people burn (why? D&D have a love affair with the character and despite previous episodes showing her as hard and evil they wanted us to suddenly pull for her to survive?)

That's it, have Dany go straight for the Red Keep and then continue the destruction. You give Cersei a proper on screen death scene and Dany's revenge is gotten. I still don't like she slaughter the innocent people, but I would at least feel slightly different about it as I could see the motivation better. Revenge that bubbled over and she lost control and continued sacking the city.
 
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#9,494
#9,494
Grand Vol said:
Again, I think there is far more to that situation than meets the eye.
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So you're saying they hatched a plan to get Varys caught? That's interesting, but when they captured Varys, there was an exchange between the two where Tyrion let him know that he betrayed him.
 
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#9,495
#9,495
JCP201 said:
I think the fan upset is more that GAME OF THRONES is going from one of the greatest shows, to a really good show due to rushed writing. Tyrion/Varys? Tyrion tells him about Jon and then rats him out shortly after because he did what it was obvious he was going to do. Jaime going North where everyone hates him to fight the Night King, to saying he doesn't care about anyone but Cersei. Also, as McGill said-- Dany stopped her quest for the throne to help everyone with the Night King, and now she is worse than Cercei, Little Finger, Ramsey, Joffrey, etc.

It's like someone ripped out the last few chapters of the book and just left the end.
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That really is my biggest problem with it all right now... and the more I think about it, the more it bothers me. The way they treated his character this season doesn't make any sense. In episode 2, he apologized for pushing Bran and told him that he is a different man now and we saw so much evidence of this change with the very poignant scene where he knighted Brienne and then in episode 4, they went to bed. His rushing back to die in Cersei's arms just doesn't fit and it left me with the sense that the integrity of the story has been compromised just for the sake of reaching a conclusion.
 
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#9,496
#9,496
Grand Vol said:
"It's fear then..."
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Come on ElGrande..admit it. It is a huuuuge leap from burning rapists, slavers and murderers..even just soldiers to burning babies on purpose. She didn't need to kill everybody in KL just so people will fear her. Hell while she is at it, and since she is all out of giva effs, she should just round up whats left of the women, babies and children and crucify them all along the Kings road just like the slave masters did....that would reeeeaaaaly drive home the point to anybody that didn't catch her drift..that oughta drive home the point some more..I mean hell she was a monster the whole time right, so why not? In for a penny, in for a pound..just kill everybody.
 
#9,497
#9,497
BowlBrother85 said:
That really is my biggest problem with it all right now... and the more I think about it, the more it bothers me. The way they treated his character this season doesn't make any sense. In episode 2, he apologized for pushing Bran and told him that he is a different man now and we saw so much evidence of this change with the very poignant scene where he knighted Brienne and then in episode 4, they went to bed. His rushing back to die in Cersei's arms just doesn't fit and it left me with the sense that the integrity of the story has been compromised just for the sake of reaching a conclusion.
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what my problem with Jamie is that the dragon going down convinced him to save Cersei but when there were two, hes like "oh I'll just stay here and **** this tall chick in the cold and Cersei is as good as dead.
 
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#9,498
#9,498
SouthKnoxVOL said:
Well damn...I just felt like the battle for winterfell and the defeat of the WW and NK was pretty anti climactic.
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it was, and it wasn't. loved the ayra ending....and the overall battle sequence was fantastic.

but from a "scale" standpoint...........that the whole war was 1 battle....no battles with any of the WW's.............yeah, that was surprising....so i agree with you from that angle....definitely feel like it could have been a lot "more".
 
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#9,500
#9,500
utvols88 said:
what my problem with Jamie is that the dragon going down convinced him to save Cersei but when there were two, hes like "oh I'll just stay here and **** this tall chick in the cold and Cersei is as good as dead.
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Yeah wasn't sure how to read that...I think I would have preferred the thought that "she got one, maybe Cersei can win this...I need to help" angle more than the "oh I need to be there when she is taken down"
 
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