HBO's "Game of Thrones"

#9,503
#9,503
n_huffhines said:
So you're saying they hatched a plan to get Varys caught? That's interesting, but when they captured Varys, there was an exchange between the two where Tyrion let him know that he betrayed him.
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Maybe not caught per se, but a red herring to throw off Dany.

Remember, Varys contacted an unknown number of people already about the exact identity of Jon Snow. She doesn't know that...yet.
 
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#9,504
#9,504
BowlBrother85 said:
That really is my biggest problem with it all right now... and the more I think about it, the more it bothers me. The way they treated his character this season doesn't make any sense. In episode 2, he apologized for pushing Bran and told him that he is a different man now and we saw so much evidence of this change with the very poignant scene where he knighted Brienne and then in episode 4, they went to bed. His rushing back to die in Cersei's arms just doesn't fit and it left me with the sense that the integrity of the story has been compromised just for the sake of reaching a conclusion.
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in regards to Jamie and Cerci, i totally agree.
 
#9,508
#9,508
Grand Vol said:
Again, I think there is far more to that situation than meets the eye.
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well, not really though. in their conversation in the throne room at dragon stone, VArys basically told Tyrian she needd to die in order for Jon to become King. and Tyrian responded "please don't", as if to even have that thought.

at that point, as well intentioned as Tyrian may have been, Varys knew what was up when he said "we both have a choice to make, hope we make the right one"

they did, and htey both chose different things....Varys gets got. Sansa knows what's up too, when she called out Tyrian for being afraid of Dany...

i'm curious what comes of all the letters Varys sent out.....
 
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#9,509
#9,509
Ulysees E. McGill said:
Come on ElGrande..admit it. It is a huuuuge leap from burning rapists, slavers and murderers..even just soldiers to burning babies on purpose. She didn't need to kill everybody in KL just so people will fear her. Hell while she is at it, and since she is all out of giva effs, she should just round up whats left of the women, babies and children and crucify them all along the Kings road just like the slave masters did....that would reeeeaaaaly drive home the point to anybody that didn't catch her drift..that oughta drive home the point some more..I mean hell she was a monster the whole time right, so why not? In for a penny, in for a pound..just kill everybody.
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if the story were told from the POV of the folks of Mareen, Dany would be the evil queen. but, the story is told from her POV, so she's not.

the issue isn't the who got killed. it's the decision...the initial impulse....to kill ALL the masters. to destroy whold city of Qarth (sp?)....in that vein, it's not a giant leap to lay waste to KL...."break the wheel" "it's fear then"...it's all there.

and i get it, you're invested, and you don't want to see it. it's still there tho.
 
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#9,511
#9,511
n_huffhines said:
So you're saying they hatched a plan to get Varys caught? That's interesting, but when they captured Varys, there was an exchange between the two where Tyrion let him know that he betrayed him.
Click to expand...

And let me expand on this slightly...

Varys has shown the propensity to keep himself alive throughout seven seasons. Isn't it rather strange that all the sudden when he likely knows the walls are closing in (removing his rings and burning the last of the assumed raven notes) he doesn't even try to escape? He shows zero emotion when Tyrion says "it was me." He only takes in a deep breath when Dany roasts him. A man resigned to his fate?

No, I think there is something else there. Something we didn't see or know about at this time. He is the Master of Whispers, always plotting, always scheming, always with the information nobody else has. His death just didn't fit into the GoT we've seen for seven seasons. Not without something else at hand.
 
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#9,512
#9,512
Grand Vol said:
And let me expand on this slightly...

Varys has shown the propensity to keep himself alive throughout seven seasons. Isn't it rather strange that all the sudden when he likely knows the walls are closing in (removing his rings and burning the last of the assumed raven notes) he doesn't even try to escape? He shows zero emotion when Tyrion says "it was me." He only takes in a deep breath when Dany roasts him. A man resigned to his fate?

No, I think there is something else there. Something we didn't see or know about at this time. He is the Master of Whispers, always plotting, always scheming, always with the information nobody else has. His death just didn't fit into the GoT we've seen for seven seasons. Not without something else at hand.
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Well, he’ll be awfully lean, with quite a bit of body fat melted off...

But yes, wouldn’t it be interesting if this was an elaborate trap for Tyrion, spring by Dany and Varys?
 
#9,513
#9,513
Grand Vol said:
And let me expand on this slightly...

Varys has shown the propensity to keep himself alive throughout seven seasons. Isn't it rather strange that all the sudden when he likely knows the walls are closing in (removing his rings and burning the last of the assumed raven notes) he doesn't even try to escape? He shows zero emotion when Tyrion says "it was me." He only takes in a deep breath when Dany roasts him. A man resigned to his fate?

No, I think there is something else there. Something we didn't see or know about at this time. He is the Master of Whispers, always plotting, always scheming, always with the information nobody else has. His death just didn't fit into the GoT we've seen for seven seasons. Not without something else at hand.
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To be fair the theme of this last season has been so much this. Peter himself in an interview after the battle of Winterfell made a quip about how clever Tyrion is, except that he wasn't clever enough to not hide in a crypt with dead bodies that the NK could reanimate...

D&D aren't as clever as you're giving them credit, and with one episode left even if there is a grander scheme for Varys I doubt it'll get any real justice.
 
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#9,515
#9,515
Grand Vol said:
And let me expand on this slightly...

Varys has shown the propensity to keep himself alive throughout seven seasons. Isn't it rather strange that all the sudden when he likely knows the walls are closing in (removing his rings and burning the last of the assumed raven notes) he doesn't even try to escape? He shows zero emotion when Tyrion says "it was me." He only takes in a deep breath when Dany roasts him. A man resigned to his fate?

No, I think there is something else there. Something we didn't see or know about at this time. He is the Master of Whispers, always plotting, always scheming, always with the information nobody else has. His death just didn't fit into the GoT we've seen for seven seasons. Not without something else at hand.
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this season has proven, so far at least, to be the exact opposite of what you're describing.......at lesat from a "sticking to the point" regarding character arcs....based on how this season has gone, Varys is dead....and hte only thing really left from his story is what is to come of the letters he did get out? past that.............
 
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#9,516
#9,516
Grand Vol said:
And let me expand on this slightly...

Varys has shown the propensity to keep himself alive throughout seven seasons. Isn't it rather strange that all the sudden when he likely knows the walls are closing in (removing his rings and burning the last of the assumed raven notes) he doesn't even try to escape? He shows zero emotion when Tyrion says "it was me." He only takes in a deep breath when Dany roasts him. A man resigned to his fate?

No, I think there is something else there. Something we didn't see or know about at this time. He is the Master of Whispers, always plotting, always scheming, always with the information nobody else has. His death just didn't fit into the GoT we've seen for seven seasons. Not without something else at hand.
Click to expand...
I know what you mean and agree. Varys is one of my favorite characters. His motives were good, and he's taken risks before but never just waited to be picked up and executed for his cause.

Hopefully I'm wrong but I don't know if they can resolve all these things in one episode. I fear Varys' story was just cut short in their effort to rush this show to conclusion.
 
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#9,517
#9,517
VolNExile said:
Well, he’ll be awfully lean, with quite a bit of body fat melted off...

But yes, wouldn’t it be interesting if this was an elaborate trap for Tyrion, spring by Dany and Varys?
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Actually, I was thinking Varys and Tyrion making the elaborate scheme against Dany. Tyrion knew or had to have known the ramifications of Varys spreading the information he had. Varys knew this as well. Varys may very well have sacrificed himself for the "greater good" or, again, as a red herring to keep Dany from suspecting too much. His life over Jon Snow's? He wanted Jon on the throne. Tyrion also knows Jon Snow has the better claim to the throne and the support of the people.

"When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground."
 
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#9,519
#9,519
Grand Vol said:
Actually, I was thinking Varys and Tyrion making the elaborate scheme against Dany. Tyrion knew or had to have known the ramifications of Varys spreading the information he had. Varys knew this as well. Varys may very well have sacrificed himself for the "greater good" or, again, as a red herring to keep Dany from suspecting too much. His life over Jon Snow's? He wanted Jon on the throne. Tyrion also knows Jon Snow has the better claim to the throne and the support of the people.

"When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground."
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tyrian and Jon were both all in on Dany, for different reasons. Jon is just loyal to a fault. and even though he's not capable of returing the feelings any longer, he's been steadfast in his claim of loyalty. for Tyrian, i think he's invested in Dany. but he's seen enough over the past two seasons to know she's a bit of a wildcard, which is why it was interesting when Sansa accused him of being afraid of her, he didn't exactly balk at hte notion in his response....being something along the lines of "a healthy dose of fear is required for a ruler" or something like that. but he's had trouble reconciling the good and bad he's seen in Dany. and he has grown every fearful of her as it's gone on.....

they both know different now, and that she's likely got to go. don't see her coming back from this.

Sansa and Varys have been the only two to see thru it, though i dont' know that either saw anything like this on the horizon.
 
#9,522
#9,522
Grand Vol said:
Actually, I was thinking Varys and Tyrion making the elaborate scheme against Dany. Tyrion knew or had to have known the ramifications of Varys spreading the information he had. Varys knew this as well. Varys may very well have sacrificed himself for the "greater good" or, again, as a red herring to keep Dany from suspecting too much. His life over Jon Snow's? He wanted Jon on the throne. Tyrion also knows Jon Snow has the better claim to the throne and the support of the people.

"When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground."
Click to expand...

Yeah, I see it now. Varys essentially knew that she would find out, if it wasn't Tyrion that betrayed him someone he wrote might. So he essentially took his punishment so to speak, so Tyrion & Jon Snow could have the opportunity to prove their loyalty to Dany before she had the chance to turn on them.
 
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#9,523
#9,523
MoCo_Vol said:
Yeah, I see it now. Varys essentially knew that she would find out, if it wasn't Tyrion that betrayed him someone he wrote might. So he essentially took his punishment so to speak, so Tyrion & Jon Snow could have the opportunity to prove their loyalty to Dany before she had the chance to turn on them.
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jon could have been burned in KL and she not even know it.

not sure what that may say on her inentions at this point.......but once she started last week, it was at least on the table that he could die in her air raid.....and that didn't really deter her.....

i think the descent is done, and she's not listening to Jon or Tyrian any longer. i expect some dialogue, where they may try to reason with her, but ultimately, one or both are going to have to pull the trigger so to speak.

maybe only 1 comes out alive......
 
#9,525
#9,525
When the ashes were falling in KL it looked like snow - thought about Dany's vision in the House of the Undying where the throne room was roasted and "snow" coming down. Could be ashes; could be Jon Snow. Either way, her vision was on point.

Agree with others that we've seen the potential to go ape shizz from her. In Qarth when she was trying to get ships from the rich guy (not the Xaros) she went on and on about her destiny - she's been convinced since early on that the IT was hers and nothing would stop that pursuit. When she was betrayed and "aunt-zoned" (TM GrandVol) by Jon she had nothing left to be the "good" ruler. The 7K would not accept her unless she demonstrated why they must. The destiny + the dragon being awaked (Targaryen temper tantrum) led to the destruction. She went on a binge. It was revenge against Cersei AND the betrayals from Jon, Tyrion, etc.



WILDCARD: Bronn is still mucking about somewhere. Hard to imagine they wrote in him showing up at WF with the crossbow and all his histrionics if he wasn't going to play some role.
 
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