Heath Shuler vs. Peyton Manning

#126
#126
Redlegs said:
Nope. It's getting better all the time in Lexington. Hell, we beat the eventual national champs last year. Sure would like to beat y'all again though. Needless to say, we're due.
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I don't see that happening this year... alst year was your best shot.
 
#127
#127
BigPapaVol said:
we've had Wade Houston, Jerry Green and Buzz Peterson, almost back-to-back-to-back Jack. We have every right to question our coaches and those who hire them.
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I thought we were talking about Fulmer, Big Papa. It's getting late down there on Rocky Top.
 
#128
#128
volsforever27 said:
I don't see that happening this year... alst year was your best shot.
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We're definately in a tough spot geographically, sitting between you guys and Ohio State. The important thing is to continue building. Coach Brooks vows to be even better this year. We'll see. They have the talent at running back, but the QB and WR's is a huge question. The defense is supposed to be the best Brooks has had. Like I said, we'll see.
 
#129
#129
Redlegs said:
I thought we were talking about Fulmer, Big Papa. It's getting late down there on Rocky Top.
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you were, I was talking about poor coaches.

If I recall, I think you were the one calling Couch a benefactor of Mumme. Now that's frickin' getting late.
 
#130
#130
vader said:
His lengthy holdout also played a role in this and made him no friends as a rookie.
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I lived in DC while this was going on. IMO, Shuler killed his entire career dead by holding out. By the time he saw the field, the entire fanbase had thrown its unconditional love behind the other rookie QB, Gus Frerotte, and it only got worse when Shuler didn't have any immediate success. They both sucked, but only one of them was the greedy holdout bonus baby. And given that the whole team was in the post-Gibbs crash period, it was easy for Shuler to be villified, made into a scapegoat, and run out of town.

It was really ugly to live up there and read all this happening in the papers, listening to the guys sitting next to you in the bars, etc. The whole team was old and terrible, yet the fans blamed everything on the fact that Shuler wasn't any immediately better than Frerotte in the first half of the season. No offense to the Washington Area Football Team fans among us, but it was like living among Alabama football or Kentuky basketball fans. Their failure is still amusing to me, 15 years later.
 
#131
#131
perhaps I have clouded my mind to mask the pain as a Redskins fan, but wasn't Frerotte playing really good until he decided to bang his head into a cement wall?
 
#132
#132
Frerotte played sort of okay as a rookie. Shuler played a little bit less than sort of okay, but neither of them played very well at all. Shuler's problem was that he held out so long that he never caught up to Frerotte in terms of the playbook, running the offense, etc., so Frerotte came out of training camp "ahead" of him, and when they were both bad, the fans turned entirely on Shuler in favor of the 7th round, lunchpail guy. It really was like a good v. evil thing: Shuler was the greedy holdout; Frerotte was the regular joe from a small school. There was not much difference in their play -- and really, the whole team around them sucked too, so how much success could either of them have had? -- but everybody loved Frerotte the Underdog. Shuler was done before he ever set foot on the field.
 
#133
#133
It was especially galling to me because there is no more vainglorious, status-obsessed city in the US than Washington. So for me to sit there in these pubs and listen to an endless parade of these resume-stuffing, name-dropping, chest-puffing functionaries championing Frerotte The Glorious Common Man was nauseating. Frerotte and Shuler were both bad, mostly because the team was really bad. Old team + rookie QB is somehow supposed to equal success?
 
#135
#135
I saw someone say deathmatch, and I'd have to give the advantage to Shuler.

Peyton gets frustrated too easily and when he gets down, he really gets down and his play often times reflects his mood. Still does, in fact, but he's older now and is in much better control of his emotions. But the representative from NC has my vote in a deathmatch. Just a better overall athlete.
 
#136
#136
Redlegs said:
This is off topic, but Couch was the best QB in the country coming out as a junior. He began the process of making Kentucky respectable on the college football scene. As a matter of fact, Tennessee and Ohio State were chomping at the bit to get him. He just decided to stay home.
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he decided to stay home and play for bill curry, a man not exactly known for throwing the ball around. :crazy:
 
#138
#138
GAVol said:
It's amazing how the offenses Peyton Manning plays in always seem to be more "talented".
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He does make others better! No question. But...based on the "college" game, give me Tony Robinson , Heath Shuler, and Jimmy Streeter. i know it's hypothetical (sp) but what would TR and JS done with Peyton's supporting cast.

Whoever said that Peyton had no running game??? Not you GAVol...
James Stewart, Charlie Garner, Jamal Lewis.....yea, they SUCKED!!!!!
 
#139
#139
I think Charlier Garner was gone by the time Peyton started playing. James Stewart and Jamal Lewis each only played one year with Peyton. Jay Graham was pretty good, though.
 
#140
#140
kptvol said:
I think Charlier Garner was gone by the time Peyton started playing. James Stewart and Jamal Lewis each only played one year with Peyton. Jay Graham was pretty good, though.
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My fault, I get Garner and Graham confused......You are correct. i have "The Tennessee Rifles" print in my office with Peyton, and Graham on it. My mistake.

Peyton did have very good (great) backs!
 
#141
#141
peaygolf89 said:
My fault, I get Garner and Graham confused......You are correct. i have "The Tennessee Rifles" print in my office with Peyton, and Graham on it. My mistake.

Peyton did have very good (great) backs!
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Um, that was me you seem to be calling out. Graham had a very good year in '95, but what did he do in '96? The o-line was terrible that year, and he had no running game in '97 until they let Lewis have playing time. If I'm wrong, then prove otherwise.

Nowhere did I mention '94 or '95.
 
#142
#142
volsforever27 said:
Um, that was me you seem to be calling out. Graham had a very good year in '95, but what did he do in '96? The o-line was terrible that year, and he had no running game in '97 until they let Lewis have playing time. If I'm wrong, then prove otherwise.

Nowhere did I mention '94 or '95.
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I'm not "calling annyone out." Peyton had very good backs. Graham had 800 yrds in 96 with 11 tds, and only 179 carries (4.6 per carry). not that bad! He got hurt ...I think? I could be wrong.
 
#143
#143
peaygolf89 said:
I'm not "calling annyone out." Peyton had very good backs. Graham had 800 yrds in 96 with 11 tds, and only 179 carries (4.6 per carry). not that bad! He got hurt ...I think? I could be wrong.
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I can't recall, but I remember the line being atrocious. The only 100 yard game I remember Graham having was the Bama game, but there may have been another that I don't remember. My point was for a good majority of his (Manning) last two seasons he had no halp from the running game, I wasn't questioning Graham's talent. I know for a fact he didn't have the success he had in '95, injury or no.
 
#145
#145
Vercingetorix said:
Frerotte played sort of okay as a rookie. Shuler played a little bit less than sort of okay, but neither of them played very well at all. Shuler's problem was that he held out so long that he never caught up to Frerotte in terms of the playbook, running the offense, etc., so Frerotte came out of training camp "ahead" of him, and when they were both bad, the fans turned entirely on Shuler in favor of the 7th round, lunchpail guy. It really was like a good v. evil thing: Shuler was the greedy holdout; Frerotte was the regular joe from a small school. There was not much difference in their play -- and really, the whole team around them sucked too, so how much success could either of them have had? -- but everybody loved Frerotte the Underdog. Shuler was done before he ever set foot on the field.
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I understand what I am about to post probably comes from my orange colored glasses and tin foil hat, but I swear it seemed to me that Frerotte seemed to have noticably more time in the pocket than Shuler. When Shuler came in it was like he was immediately running for his life. I often wondered if his linemen tried a little harder for the regular joe than the greedy holdout.
 
#146
#146
Could be. I would not doubt it! He (Shuler) rubbed many the wrong way! It's a shame he was not better in the NFL. Talent was there..... smarts?????? not so sure.
 
#147
#147
Heath probably would have had a fine career had he not been sidelined due to injuries. I think he would have continued to catch on with teams, and then eventually had a break out season, or at the very least become a serviceable QB.
 
#148
#148
The difference between Peyton And Heath...

Peyton studied the game to improve his talent and works relentlessly with his receivers to become one.

Heath used his raw talent to perform, but did not put in the time to become what should have been a can't miss QB.
 
#149
#149
vader said:
His lengthy holdout also played a role in this and made him no friends as a rookie.
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All bigtime QB's hold out...J Russtle...the 1st draft pick not the 3rd. I realize the holdout isn't good for team chemistry, but the agents tell these young impressionable guys to do it bc...it works...not bc it's right.
 
#150
#150
volsforever27 said:
As bad as Curry was, he didn't try a fake with the punter trying to run on 4th and forever. Good ol Hal. I never saw so many people at a game wonder aloud about the opposition's call.
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Nor try to extend a 4-OT game against Florida by having Jared Lorenzen try a QB draw from the 7 on 4th down.

If you had Lorenzen with a running start at the 7 and the defense consisting of Jerry Ball, Ted Washington, and Gilbert Brown in the back of the end zone, Lorenzen still doesn't score.
 
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