Here comes the NCAA

[BigOrangeTrain]

geez when will this crap be over !!

It’s pretty much over. Nothing is really gonna come of this.

 

[LWSVOL]

Would think the NCAA would have Fulmer asked to be present at this fiasco if he were somehow implicated. Idk though.

Based all the evidence that we have seen, I have seen nothing to implicate Fulmer. He was not named in the 108 page report by Tennessee that covered their investigation. He was not named at the PC on January 18, 2021. In fact, it was stated he had no knowledge of what had happened.

So I'm not sure how the NCAA would have any evidence implicating him? All electronic items that the fired staff had were taken back by UT when they were dismissed. Just not sure where evidence would come from.

Ansley or Pruitt do not have to go to the hearing since they are no longer employed by any school. I would assume that would be true for Fulmer as well although if he was requested to be there I believe he would go. Ansley is not expected to attend.

 

[unfrozencvmanvol]

I've never heard anything regarding Fulmer having knowledge of anything that went on or being involved in anything. I'm not sure what proof that Pruitt could offer? Tennessee confiscated his computer and phone when he was fired. So he doesn't have that to prove any communication between the two. Same for all the other staff that was fired.

Pruitt, or anyone else, saying something without evidence just is not going to move the needle.

All this Fulmer talk is foolish IMO. If anyone has proof of his involvement or knowledge of the going's on and it was not included in Tennessee's report, Tennessee would be wide open to IC problems. Plowman and Boyd could be accused of a coverup.

Its foolish talk to say on one hand, UT cooperated and gave everything to the NCAA and then on the other hand think Fulmer was complicit. Plowman and Boyd would have given him the same thing they did Pruitt and staff but they did the exact opposite. Praised him and paid him.

Thanks for the reply LWS, I was just wondering if those allegations were actually part of Pruitt's defense or if that part was just speculation. Essentially that would be a Nuremberg defense that he was just following orders, and that usually meets with limited success as you said.

 

[LWSVOL]

Thanks for the reply LWS, I was just wondering if those allegations were actually part of Pruitt's defense or if that part was just speculation. Essentially that would be a Nuremberg defense that he was just following orders, and that usually meets with limited success as you said.

I'm not certain how he is approaching but my guess is he is trying to get out of a show cause situation. The NCAA is hitting him with X years of show cause. My guess would be he is trying to get that removed or at least the number of years reduced.

Outside of a show cause, I'm not sure what other penalties the NCAA levies against coaches or staff? Neidermyer and Felton have already agreed to accept the NCAA penalty against them. They were given 3 to 5 year show cause penalties.

 

[Smallvol#1]

I’m probably giving the NCAA too much credit, but if they can’t see that UT got in front of it and preemptively took care of the problem and punished itself accordingly, they’re more ignorant and useless than we thought

You are, and they are.

 

[VolInNW]

In fact, it was stated he had no knowledge of what had happened

LWS - really respect your take. I guess I am wondering another angle. Since we decided to give Phil Paycheck a hero's sendoff, and paid his buyout, would this bite us, especially since a 'lack of oversight' was listed in the 'notice of infractions'? I realize I am butchering the terms, I just don't have time to look up the proper phrases.

 

[LWSVOL]

LWS - really respect your take. I guess I am wondering another angle. Since we decided to give Phil Paycheck a hero's sendoff, and paid his buyout, would this bite us, especially since a 'lack of oversight' was listed in the 'notice of infractions'? I realize I am butchering the terms, I just don't have time to look up the proper phrases.

I don't think the NCAA cares about that one way or the other. If Plowman and Boyd believe he had no knowledge and was not a participate (which I believe could be the only reason he was left out of the findings) then paying him is meaningless.

If the NCAA is taking a stance that says violations went on for 3 years under Pruitt and your AD had no knowledge which is lack of institutional control. That says your monitoring program was not where it needed to be to prevent violations from occurring. If that is the NCAA issue and they want LOIC penalties, I'm not sure how Tennessee rebuffs that with the NCAA?

The evidence says the AD didn't know. Why did compliance not catch it and report to the AD it was happening? or to someone? it was the 3rd year before reported and I don't think a compliance person reported it even at that point. Tennessee can say as much as they want to that Pruitt and staff did a really good job of covering it up but that is a weak argument in my opinion. Compliance is supposed to catch it.

I don't know if that is the hangup with closing things down, but that seems logical to me that it could be. Just no idea what penalty NCAA wants to apply for LOIC.

Lot of words, hope it makes sense.

 

[Jax_Vol]

I don't think the NCAA cares about that one way or the other. If Plowman and Boyd believe he had no knowledge and was not a participate (which I believe could be the only reason he was left out of the findings) then paying him is meaningless.

If the NCAA is taking a stance that says violations went on for 3 years under Pruitt and your AD had no knowledge which is lack of institutional control. That says your monitoring program was not where it needed to be to prevent violations from occurring. If that is the NCAA issue and they want LOIC penalties, I'm not sure how Tennessee rebuffs that with the NCAA?

The evidence says the AD didn't know. Why did compliance not catch it and report to the AD it was happening? or to someone? it was the 3rd year before reported and I don't think a compliance person reported it even at that point. Tennessee can say as much as they want to that Pruitt and staff did a really good job of covering it up but that is a weak argument in my opinion. Compliance is supposed to catch it.

I don't know if that is the hangup with closing things down, but that seems logical to me that it could be. Just no idea what penalty NCAA wants to apply for LOIC.

Lot of words, hope it makes sense.

I'm joining in late here Larry.

I am of the belief that Phil did not know anything.

However, I thought Pruitt operated cleanly for the first 18-24 months or so. Then, the pressure built up and he started paying. If that was the case, then I can semi-understand how monitoring might miss it for shorter time period.

If he was cheating from Day 1, then gonna question compliance competence and Phil being naive.

Several times, I heard Phil say that his coach "went rouge" on him. To me, that means he didn't start off that way. I may be wrong.

 

[UTK]

NCAA has zero power yo

 

[LWSVOL]

I'm joining in late here Larry.

I am of the belief that Phil did not know anything.

However, I thought Pruitt operated cleanly for the first 18-24 months or so. Then, the pressure built up and he started paying. If that was the case, then I can semi-understand how monitoring might miss it for shorter time period.

If he was cheating from Day 1, then gonna question compliance competence and Phil being naive.

Several times, I heard Phil say that his coach "went rouge" on him. To me, that means he didn't start off that way. I may be wrong.

This indicates close to day 1 if not day 1. its from a USA article when the allegations were released last July by the NCAA

The NCAA contends Pruitt and his staff gave players cash and gifts throughout his tenure with the Vols from 2018-21. And it says that his wife, Casey Pruitt, paid more than $15,000 in rent and car payments for a Tennessee player and his mother over 2½ years.

 

[VolInNW]

I don't think the NCAA cares about that one way or the other. If Plowman and Boyd believe he had no knowledge and was not a participate (which I believe could be the only reason he was left out of the findings) then paying him is meaningless.

If the NCAA is taking a stance that says violations went on for 3 years under Pruitt and your AD had no knowledge which is lack of institutional control. That says your monitoring program was not where it needed to be to prevent violations from occurring. If that is the NCAA issue and they want LOIC penalties, I'm not sure how Tennessee rebuffs that with the NCAA?

The evidence says the AD didn't know. Why did compliance not catch it and report to the AD it was happening? or to someone? it was the 3rd year before reported and I don't think a compliance person reported it even at that point. Tennessee can say as much as they want to that Pruitt and staff did a really good job of covering it up but that is a weak argument in my opinion. Compliance is supposed to catch it.

I don't know if that is the hangup with closing things down, but that seems logical to me that it could be. Just no idea what penalty NCAA wants to apply for LOIC.

Lot of words, hope it makes sense.

Great response, thanks!

I do wonder about how this is playing out. Since the investigations folks noted in the notice of infractions that it did not find a LOIC, but rather a failure to monitor, could the actual committee be taking a harder line that Fulmer's stated ignorance of the infractions is indeed LOIC? Could that be why UT and the NCAA could not solve this though a negotiated settlement? It is my understanding that the investigation people are a different department than the infractions committee, and that their recommendations and findings are not binding on the committee?? I would appreciate your take on that!

This whole area is ridiculous in the NIL era, but it would be quintessential Tennessee luck to be the very last program ever seriously punished under the pre-NIL rules. So very, very Tennessee

::: insert Eeoyre emoji here ::::

 

[LWSVOL]

Great response, thanks!

I do wonder about how this is playing out. Since the investigations folks noted in the notice of infractions that it did not find a LOIC, but rather a failure to monitor, could the actual committee be taking a harder line that Fulmer's stated ignorance of the infractions is indeed LOIC? Could that be why UT and the NCAA could not solve this though a negotiated settlement? It is my understanding that the investigation people are a different department than the infractions committee, and that their recommendations and findings are not binding on the committee?? I would appreciate your take on that!

This whole area is ridiculous in the NIL era, but it would be quintessential Tennessee luck to be the very last program ever seriously punished under the pre-NIL rules. So very, very Tennessee

::: insert Eeoyre emoji here ::::

Wait a minute. NIL has nothing to do with what Pruitt and staff did. What they did if done today is still violations. Staff and schools still cannot be involved with payments to players or prospects.

The committee are different people. They are actually administration from other schools and conferences. They apply penalties.

 

[Godfatha]

I've wondered how players who took money can just go to another school and play. Seems odd to me that the NCAA would punish a coach, AD, and players who were not here when the infractions occurred but will do nothing to the players who took money.

 

[Dadof2Vols]

Fulmer has a lot of naked pics of people, that’s why!

Donde?

 

[VolInDayton]

Derrick Ansley is a NFL DC and Heupel wants to coach again. Hopefully they just help make this as painless as possible.

 

[Woodlawn VOL]

Not worried, if the ncaa tries to go all hard now Tennessee will not go along with it. This is a few NCAA folks trying to flex just cause they are all bent out of shape. They have the best product but have become terribly inconsistent and ineffective with enforcement. And what about the ncaa saying we are going to concentrate on the folks involved more than penalizing a school way after the fact???? Remember that ncaa talk a while back after that 9-0 Supreme Court shellacking? How they were going to streamline the rule book and improve things?The bias in the ncaa is glaring, there is zero consistency and hasn’t been for years. We need a governing body but I don’t think the NCAA as it is now is the answer. Things in that organization have to change or we need to form one that can fairly and swiftly investigate rules infractions and rules need to be streamlined and common sense needs to be applied.

 

[Woodlawn VOL]

I agree wholeheartedly. Tell the NCAA t go pound sand and we're not complying with anything until they do something about the UNC basketball program that was out of control.

And LSU and Miami, Miami got away with things all on a bs technically. Crooked as all get out!

 

[LAVol1]

Let Pruitt blame Fulmer as we canned Phil, too. He received a buyout clause but that was to save face so could go into the sunset as a VFL player and coach. And, it wouldn’t surprise me if Fulmer was aware of some of theShenanigans.

Make no mistake about it, almost every program did it. Beldar was just stupid enough to get caught.

 

[VolInNW]

Wait a minute. NIL has nothing to do with what Pruitt and staff did. What they did if done today is still violations. Staff and schools still cannot be involved with payments to players or prospects.

The committee are different people. They are actually administration from other schools and conferences. They apply penalties.

Gotcha. What I meant was that if the goal was to get cash to a player, NIL makes it much easier and completely under the rules. I understand sending your pregnant wife and your babysitter to execute cash drops is unlawful in both eras.

Thanks for the info about the committee. I didnt know that.

 

[BreatheUT]

Pruitt & Co. will try to put as much hurt on us as they possibly can.

Are you saying they might even make up stuff that isn't true?

 

[LWSVOL]

Gotcha. What I meant was that if the goal was to get cash to a player, NIL makes it much easier and completely under the rules. I understand sending your pregnant wife and your babysitter to execute cash drops is unlawful in both eras.

Thanks for the info about the committee. I didnt know that.

Here is the infractions committee. this is the group of people that Tennessee has been trying to negotiate settlement regarding penalties.

NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions Roster

 

[strkr]

The NCAA is all done w any kind of power / punishment etc. tell them to pound sand.

That is what I say kick rocks pound sand.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

Are you saying they might even make up stuff that isn't true?

Hoomons, too often, can be intelligently and morally bankrupt.
=======================================

Let me tell you something about hoomons, nephew.

 

[jarnol32]

This indicates close to day 1 if not day 1. its from a USA article when the allegations were released last July by the NCAA

The NCAA contends Pruitt and his staff gave players cash and gifts throughout his tenure with the Vols from 2018-21. And it says that his wife, Casey Pruitt, paid more than $15,000 in rent and car payments for a Tennessee player and his mother over 2½ years.

Don’t be naive. Every major university has been paying players for Atleast the last 50 years. You can’t truly think that Tennessee was paying players, and Georgia and Alabama were stacking up 5 stars while not paying. The only reason Pruitt got caught, was someone wanted to get rid of him at the university. If he’d of been winning 10 games a year none of this would’ve seen the light of day.

 

[Jax_Vol]

This indicates close to day 1 if not day 1. its from a USA article when the allegations were released last July by the NCAA

The NCAA contends Pruitt and his staff gave players cash and gifts throughout his tenure with the Vols from 2018-21. And it says that his wife, Casey Pruitt, paid more than $15,000 in rent and car payments for a Tennessee player and his mother over 2½ years.

Ok. Thanks for that info.

He really fooled Phil then.