Hey coach worshippers...

I don't think we will see either freshman qb this year without a injury to worley. He will play both next year in game situations get the one that plays better in game and stick with him. The other will transfer.

If Worley lost the confidence of the team and his line and his recievers then yes we will or Butch is a coward. Maybe he'll bounce back and you'll be right but the natives will grow restless if he has more days like today. If your ace in the hole is ball security you can't toss 2 interceptions at the goal line.
 
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Which held, until today. Bad picks against USA=skepticism going into October.

Fair. He still has done a good job getting everyone lined up and getting the plays off without too many timeouts or penalties (although we had a few too many of those today also).
 
What's odd is I've asked you multiple times for specifics. You have your thread and you have all of our attention. The floor is yours. Tell us what's bothering you about this team besides you don't want to wait until 2016 to see results. We're listening. There no name calling in this thread and no one is trying to silence your criticism. Go.

I asked my question in the first post and still no one has answered it. I see post after post on here about how uniquely irrational UT fans are to expect improvement or even to expect to win comfortably against a vastly inferior opponent. But no one has told me of all the other major programs whose fans would be happy with the coaching staff after a performance like today.

I would really rather keep this thread based around my original question, however, since no one will answer it, I'll answer your's instead...

What bothers me most about this team is the utter lack of improvement. Dooley was probably the worst coach we've ever had and maybe the worst coach any major program has hired in the last decade, but I don't see any difference. I mean, you would think a good coach would make some discernable difference, but I don't see it. I can't imagine how a good coach couldn't possibly be able to get at least one quarterback ready to play. And our quarterbacks look absolutely lost out there. I'm sure the players lack alot, but we've seen plenty of teams with huge talent deficiencies play disciplined, mistake miinmizing football under good coaches, even in those coaches' first years. But we continue to make huge mistakes. It's mostly in the passing game and most of it seems to come down to the QB, but once again, I think you have to hold the coach at least partially responsible for not having anyone who can simply take care of the football.

And at this point, I don't like the offensive system. I mean, the only point of a system is to get the most out of your players. If you don't have the players to run the system, then why run it? Right now, it seems like we only run 5 plays, and most of them don't work anyway. It doesn't even seem like we have a game plan for a specific opponent, we just run the same dive out of shotgun play over and over and hope someone breaks a tackle. It just seems like such a funky set-up for running, but all we can do with any efficiency whatsoever is running.
 
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If I really have to explain why I'm not ready to fire a coaching staff after 5 frecking games, with a roster that's been ruined by bad coaching and one change after another, it would do no good. You oblivious wouldn't understand .
 
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What truth? Think we have been waiting on these facts from the OP this whole thread? Do you have the insider scoop that the OP has yet to present?

Yeah, the scoop is that Worley is a poorly coached, underperforming excuse for a QB. That is the coach's fault.
 
I watched it again and did not see Worley throw off of his back foot. He actually looked better the 2nd time around. If the WR's were improving as fast as he is... the passing game would begin to be a real asset.

You've been defending him since he got the nod. Maybe he's all we got. If he plays like he did today the rest of the season we'll win at most 5 games, IMO.
 
If I really have to explain why I'm not ready to fire a coaching staff after 5 frecking games, with a roster that's been ruined by bad coaching and one change after another, it would do no good. You oblivious wouldn't understand .

Once again, do you people even read? Where did anyone say anything about firing anyone?
 
We are dieing a death of 1000 cuts but the nick to the femoral artery is Worley. He's the most critical piece to the puzzle and has had more glaring and repetitive struggles than anyone.

He made a couple of mistakes but he DID NOT play poorly today. There were a great number of other things that went wrong as well. But his play today was improved. He is throwing with more confidence and finding guys when they're breaking open.

Not sure who was at the game vs who watched on TV but on couple of plays where Andre Ware accused Worley of throwing high... North either ran the route too shallow or broke it off incorrectly.

Jones "coached" both North and Pig for not finishing routes.

My continuing disappointment with Worley and one of the ways he could have put that game away was the short crossing routes. He has some kind of mental block. It should be the easiest throw in the world... and he just can't hit it.

However again, on one of those plays Pig and another receiver ran into each other and blew up the timing of the play. Someone ran the route wrong.
 
Yeah, the scoop is that Worley is a poorly coached, underperforming excuse for a QB. That is the coach's fault.

Then you are obviously blaming the current offensive coordinator of Arkansas and WR coach for the Cowboys for this...I see. They are the ones that have had multiple seasons with him after all.
 
He made a couple of mistakes but he DID NOT play poorly today. There were a great number of other things that went wrong as well. But his play today was improved. He is throwing with more confidence and finding guys when they're breaking open.

Not sure who was at the game vs who watched on TV but on couple of plays where Andre Ware accused Worley of throwing high... North either ran the route too shallow or broke it off incorrectly.

Jones "coached" both North and Pig for not finishing routes.

My continuing disappointment with Worley and one of the ways he could have put that game away was the short crossing routes. He has some kind of mental block. It should be the easiest throw in the world... and he just can't hit it.

However again, on one of those plays Pig and another receiver ran into each other and blew up the timing of the play. Someone ran the route wrong.

I'll give you many of your points but I'll only say this. Worley had a ton of time today. He will not have said time against SEC defenses. He looked better because he wasn't being rushed and recievers had oodles of time to get wide ass open to the point he could not miss. When he was rushed he threw in the dirt or worse. He also threw into coverage which is not a good habit and he did so at the goalline more than once which is suicidal. He looked better yes and he looked fine against WKU which is essentially the level he was playing against.
 
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Here's how pretty much every conversation goes at VN these days...

"I'm a little worried about our play calling..."

- "It's crazy that you want to fire Butch Jones already!"
- "Dumb post of the year! You irrational, crazy, nega-vol! "
- "Nick Saban lost to Louisiana Monroe!"

...have a good night guys.
 
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Here's how pretty much every conversation goes at VN these days...

"I'm a little worried about our play calling..."

- "It's crazy that you want to fire Butch Jones already!"
- "Dumb post of the year! You irrational, crazy, nega-vol! "
- "Nick Saban lost to Louisiana Monroe!"

...have a good night guys.


Hahahahaha. Oregonvol gets it.


I'm out, as well.
 
You've been defending him since he got the nod.
No. I haven't. I'm not even "defending" him now to the exclusion of criticism or even willingness to think someone else might be a better option. I am making commentary on the game TODAY. He made some mistakes. He made some SEC throws. He needs more help from the receivers and he needs to make some of the throws better.

The over the top condemnations however ARE ignorant and premature.

Maybe he's all we got. If he plays like he did today the rest of the season we'll win at most 5 games, IMO.

If he plays the way he did today minus a couple of bad decisions, cleans up the problem with the short passing routes, gets help from the receivers, gets improved protection, continues to get run game support.... UT will win 8 IMO... how's that?


I'm sorry. Criticism is fair. The blanket condemnations aren't. He's playing. He's improving.... and he's doing it within his team as they work to get better too.


PS- If you'll notice, Jones has excused North several times because he played RB last year in HS rather than WR. He's excused him and probably legitimately... because he HAD TO. North is very much a work in progress. Under ideal circumstances, he could have used a RS.
 
If Worley lost the confidence of the team and his line and his recievers then yes we will or Butch is a coward. Maybe he'll bounce back and you'll be right but the natives will grow restless if he has more days like today. If your ace in the hole is ball security you can't toss 2 interceptions at the goal line.

Worley still has the team. I think he has less confidence in his recievers then anything. He through great passes to croom and smith all day. North and pig not so much. Don't think there on the same page as worley. But the coaches attempted to get them on the same page today. I think that is why he had so many attempts.
 
I asked my question in the first post and still no one has answered it. I see post after post on here about how uniquely irrational UT fans are to expect improvement or even to expect to win comfortably against a vastly inferior opponent. But no one has told me of all the other major programs whose fans would be happy with the coaching staff after a performance like today.

I would really rather keep this thread based around my original question, however, since no one will answer it, I'll answer your's instead...

What bothers me most about this team is the utter lack of improvement. Dooley was probably the worst coach we've ever had and maybe the worst coach any major program has hired in the last decade, but I don't see any difference. I mean, you would think a good coach would make some discernable difference, but I don't see it. I can't imagine how a good coach couldn't possibly be able to get at least one quarterback ready to play. And our quarterbacks look absolutely lost out there. I'm sure the players lack alot, but we've seen plenty of teams with huge talent deficiencies play disciplined, mistake miinmizing football under good coaches, even in those coaches' first years. But we continue to make huge mistakes. It's mostly in the passing game and most of it seems to come down to the QB, but once again, I think you have to hold the coach at least partially responsible for not having anyone who can simply take care of the football.

And at this point, I don't like the offensive system. I mean, the only point of a system is to get the most out of your players. If you don't have the players to run the system, then why run it? Right now, it seems like we only run 5 plays, and most of them don't work anyway. It doesn't even seem like we have a game plan for a specific opponent, we just run the same dive out of shotgun play over and over and hope someone breaks a tackle. It just seems like such a funky set-up for running, but all we can do with any efficiency whatsoever is running.

I thought we answered your question. Personally I don't believe any staff would be happy with our second half performance today, including ours. Are you suggesting our coaches are out driving around in a limo tonight, patting themselves on the back for a great coaching job tonight? The know we played poorly in the second half, but I bet they were thrilled to escape with a win.

Does that answer your question?

You don't see any improvement at all with this team?

A lot of people seem to have an issue with this system. I think one of the big debates is, if this is the system Butch is going to run, should be put it a different system now and then change it as he gets his players or just go with it now and grow into it? Or he could implement some sort of middle ground I suppose. It's a debate I can see both sides of.

By comparison, I think we've run the ball relatively well so I don't have a huge problem with it. And I like the offense, in theory. But I do question the way we are choosing to run it.

As for the passing game. I think there's plenty of blame to pass around. Worley needs to improve, the receivers need to get better and our staff has to find a way to put these guys in a position to be successful.
 
I watched it again and did not see Worley throw off of his back foot. He actually looked better the 2nd time around. If the WR's were improving as fast as he is... the passing game would begin to be a real asset.

He may not have today. I noticed during the second half of the Florida game, he seemed to be stepping into his throws more. One one particular play he took a big hit and completed a pass downfield for 20+ yards. It was a welcomed site IMO.
 
Here's how pretty much every conversation goes at VN these days...

"I'm a little worried about our play calling..."

- "It's crazy that you want to fire Butch Jones already!"
- "Dumb post of the year! You irrational, crazy, nega-vol! "
- "Nick Saban lost to Louisiana Monroe!"

...have a good night guys.
You left out Butch won today and beat the team that beat the team that we were picked to get beat by in week 2 by all the ESPN experts....which I recall people on here fearing WKU...yet we are 3-2...some college football experts had us 2-3 by this point.

So why are you so angry at a coach trying to make his starting QB man up in game time...I thought that was part of his job....to coach him up some confidence :dunno:
 
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I'll give you many of your points but I'll only say this. Worley had a ton of time today. He will not have said time against SEC defenses. He looked better because he wasn't being rushed and recievers had oodles of time to get wide ass open to the point he could not miss. When he was rushed he threw in the dirt or worse. He also threw into coverage which is not a good habit and he did so at the goalline more than once which is suicidal. He looked better yes and he looked fine against WKU which is essentially the level he was playing against.

He had pressure today... and yes, the OL has to do its job for the passing game to work regardless of who they play. The receivers SHOULD get space... that's been a running problem too. He threw the short passes in the dirt without much pressure. He's got some kind of block is all I can think of. Those are easy throws that he must learn to make. I can't think of another ball he under threw today or even threw late.
 
He may not have today. I noticed during the second half of the Florida game, he seemed to be stepping into his throws more. One one particular play he took a big hit and completed a pass downfield for 20+ yards. It was a welcomed site IMO.

I think he's growing. I see many people here going nuts but I was actually encouraged by the game UT and he played today. Lots of things went wrong. It could have been one of those embarrassing upsets. It SHOULD have been a 3 or 4 TD win. But it was ultimately a win.

If I were really going to be disappointed with something... it would be the D at times. If this had been a 31-14 win... then some here wouldn't be engaged in so much handwringing.
 
Once again, do you people even read? Where did anyone say anything about firing anyone?

You have to forgive us, some are still trying to interpret your intent when you start a thread "Hey coach worshippers".

Here's how pretty much every conversation goes at VN these days...

"I'm a little worried about our play calling..."

- "It's crazy that you want to fire Butch Jones already!"
- "Dumb post of the year! You irrational, crazy, nega-vol! "
- "Nick Saban lost to Louisiana Monroe!"

...have a good night guys.

Seriously, you start a thread, acting like all our fans, coaches and players are thrilled with today's second half performance and title it "hey coach worshippers" and you are surprised by the varied responses you might attract?

I think we've had a pretty civil discussion and given you the floor to make whatever points you've chosen to. Your thread isn't quite the same as one stating that "you're a little concerned about play calling". Honestly, you seem more concerned with trying to lump everyone as coach worshippers and picking out the silly responses rather than discussing the issues with those of us who are trying to appease you.

For the record, I'd even go so far as to label myself as a homer, but with just a shred of objectivity. :)

If you want to discuss your concerns, let's continue to do so. I will probably agree with a some of them.
 
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I think he's growing. I see many people here going nuts but I was actually encouraged by the game UT and he played today. Lots of things went wrong. It could have been one of those embarrassing upsets. It SHOULD have been a 3 or 4 TD win. But it was ultimately a win.

If I were really going to be disappointed with something... it would be the D at times. If this had been a 31-14 win... then some here wouldn't be engaged in so much handwringing.

Agree. I'm anxious to watch the replay.
 
I think people could handle the bad play on the field if it were'nt for the same crappy read option being ran 80% of the time with the other team knowing the QB is never gonna keep it or the crappy playing calling in the red zone with a QB who couldn't hit the side of a barn standing 10 feet away.

You do realize that we ran for well over 200 yds don't u?
 
I asked my question in the first post and still no one has answered it. I see post after post on here about how uniquely irrational UT fans are to expect improvement or even to expect to win comfortably against a vastly inferior opponent. But no one has told me of all the other major programs whose fans would be happy with the coaching staff after a performance like today.

I would really rather keep this thread based around my original question, however, since no one will answer it, I'll answer your's instead...

What bothers me most about this team is the utter lack of improvement. Dooley was probably the worst coach we've ever had and maybe the worst coach any major program has hired in the last decade, but I don't see any difference. I mean, you would think a good coach would make some discernable difference, but I don't see it. I can't imagine how a good coach couldn't possibly be able to get at least one quarterback ready to play. And our quarterbacks look absolutely lost out there. I'm sure the players lack alot, but we've seen plenty of teams with huge talent deficiencies play disciplined, mistake miinmizing football under good coaches, even in those coaches' first years. But we continue to make huge mistakes. It's mostly in the passing game and most of it seems to come down to the QB, but once again, I think you have to hold the coach at least partially responsible for not having anyone who can simply take care of the football.

And at this point, I don't like the offensive system. I mean, the only point of a system is to get the most out of your players. If you don't have the players to run the system, then why run it? Right now, it seems like we only run 5 plays, and most of them don't work anyway. It doesn't even seem like we have a game plan for a specific opponent, we just run the same dive out of shotgun play over and over and hope someone breaks a tackle. It just seems like such a funky set-up for running, but all we can do with any efficiency whatsoever is running.

Thank you for posting a complete thought. It was very nice and well thought out.
CBJ's system will work in FBS, is has and will in the past.
To answer your original question, no team fans are happy with any result that falls below their ideal of what the team "should" be capable of.
Not being happy with, and "holding accountable" are diffrent things.
If a coach is installing a new system, he cannot change the system for the players.
It just kicks the learning curve down the road.
You have to as a coach show consistency in what you are teaching.
Some players have more coachability, and pick up these queues better than others.
Those will be the leaders on the field next year... they will be who the next year starters look to for the keys to the game.
Fans do not like the its a process response, but it isa process. If you give up on your process, then your players see that. It teaches them that if they do not like something, then just do it badly, and coach will scrap it.
That's what happened with running and Bray last year... he did not like run plays, so he looked defense right to the runners. Coach scrapped the run alot because TB was better at passing.
Using players in diffrent positions is a good thing and a bad thing.
It can be positive if it provides more play makers on the field.
It can be horrid if it back fires, and the 1st option was better.
If you make those moves, you have to know the player is ready for that position.
You cannot just undo those kind of moves, so you have to project results, and prove them in practice.
These lesser teams with only 2 and 3 star talent, have something we do not.
They have spent time learning the system they play in.
Stability will fix our problems, not magic shoes.
There is no quick fix.
 
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