I am 100% convinced Butch Jones will bring us back

[sjt18]

Is this a troll? I think it's far too early to say whether Butch is going to have some grand success here, but do you really believe he is a step BACK from Derek Dooley?

Are you a troll... or can you just not read?

I am looking for PROOF... not blind faith, not bluster, not references to what he did in the MAC... PROOF that he's a better coach as demonstrated by the only important stat at the end of the day... W's and L's.

 

[GoBigOrange86]

Are you a troll... or can you just not read?

I am looking for PROOF... not blind faith, not bluster, not references to what he did in the MAC... PROOF that he's a better coach as demonstrated by the only important stat at the end of the day... W's and L's.

Woah, hello.

You apparently don't need proof to allege that Butch Jones is a step back from Derek Dooley.

 

[sjt18]

Wouldn't it be a 1-game improvement over last season which seems to be a decisive factor?

It is important but not just because it is one game better... though the pattern of most successful coaches is they manage to improve the record by at least one win when they take over.

The importance is that Jones will have done something that Dooley never did... Kiffin never did... and Fulmer struggled to do over the last half of his tenure. He will have beaten someone he was not supposed to beat. He will have won as an underdog. Most likely, he will have beaten a ranked team.

Have you seen the records they show constantly on telecasts about UT's recent futility vs ranked teams? The right guy will turn that around.

 

[LotteryPick]

Are you a troll... or can you just not read?

I am looking for PROOF... not blind faith, not bluster, not references to what he did in the MAC... PROOF that he's a better coach as demonstrated by the only important stat at the end of the day... W's and L's.

Butch Jones - 52-29

Derek Dooley - 32-41

I'm still looking for your PROOF of talent on this team.

 

[sjt18]

Woah, hello.

You apparently don't need proof to allege that Butch Jones is a step back from Derek Dooley.

Yes. Matter of factly I do. Proof that he's better. Proof that he's not. I am one of the few people here that has not assumed one way or the other. I want to believe he's better... but I want to see something that pushes me that way. The last two weeks have pushed me the other way.

 

[GoBigOrange86]

Have you seen the records they show constantly on telecasts about UT's recent futility vs ranked teams? The right guy will turn that around.

Yes, that's true, but we're still awfully early in the season.

I'm with you, I want proof too. I want a reason to believe. But I don't know how you can, for example, justify Petrino's poor performance his first year by saying he was left a mess by Houston Nutt while not also acknowledging that Jones did, for better or worse, inherit a mess.

 

[LotteryPick]

It is important but not just because it is one game better... though the pattern of most successful coaches is they manage to improve the record by at least one win when they take over.

The importance is that Jones will have done something that Dooley never did... Kiffin never did... and Fulmer struggled to do over the last half of his tenure. He will have beaten someone he was not supposed to beat. He will have won as an underdog. Most likely, he will have beaten a ranked team.

Have you seen the records they show constantly on telecasts about UT's recent futility vs ranked teams? The right guy will turn that around.

That doesn't happen over night, like you seem to be expecting.

 

[sjt18]

Butch Jones - 52-29

Derek Dooley - 32-41

I'm still looking for your PROOF of talent on this team.

At this point in his UT tenure... Dooley was 2-2.

I'm not going to spoon feed you. If you are too ignorant to look at athleticism or accept the opinions of those who evaluate talent for a living then I am not going to waste my time typing a long response that you will ignore anyway. You are determined not to see it... so you won't.

And AGAIN... I am NOT claiming this is a roster with the talent to compete for the SEC. I am saying it is good enough to have won today and good enough to win 7 games if coached well this year.

Seven games is NOT a very high bar.

 

[sjt18]

That doesn't happen over night, like you seem to be expecting.

I'm not expecting him to be over .500 against those teams... I am looking for him to beat 1 out of 6... to give some proof that he can actually do it. Frankly, if he can't do it with this roster then I hold out very little hope he can do it with the '14 roster.

 

[LotteryPick]

At this point in his UT tenure... Dooley was 2-2.

I'm not going to spoon feed you. If you are too ignorant to look at athleticism or accept the opinions of those who evaluate talent for a living then I am not going to waste my time typing a long response that you will ignore anyway. You are determined not to see it... so you won't.

And AGAIN... I am NOT claiming this is a roster with the talent to compete for the SEC. I am saying it is good enough to have won today and good enough to win 7 games if coached well this year.

Seven games is NOT a very high bar.

Pot. Meet. Kettle.

You are concluding how good this staff is after four games. THAT is ignorance.

Still looking for all this talent. Name names.

 

[Orange And Garnet]

I just wish people would realize change doesn't happen overnight. It's a process. Why do you think jones says "brick by brick" all the time? It's his hint to us that it's gonna take a few years. He knows how bad the talent is and that he doesn't have the players for his system yet. He can't just come out and say it though and bash his current players. We expected to lose these two before the season idk why everyone seems so surprised.

 

[sjt18]

Yes, that's true, but we're still awfully early in the season.

I'm with you, I want proof too. I want a reason to believe. But I don't know how you can, for example, justify Petrino's poor performance his first year by saying he was left a mess by Houston Nutt while not also acknowledging that Jones did, for better or worse, inherit a mess.

Because Jones didn't inherit a mess. The roster is very much in the range you would expect when following a coach fired for performance.

Nutt's mess was ethical as well as a lack of talent. They were terrified that the NCAA was going to bust them up. Player discipline was a complete and utter joke. IIRC, Mustain's mom was trying to sue Nutt and the Hogs. Supposedly Nutt and his wife had made swinger porn tapes that had gotten into the wrong hands. There was evidence of steroids being distributed by trainers. It was common knowledge among Hog fans that McFadden had received cars and other gifts.

Their fans began to call Nutt and his coaches the "Murray State Mafia" because they were so dirty. Petrino came in and instilled extreme discipline.... sort of like Kiffin did at UT. Early morning work outs. Mandatory team breakfast. Curfews. Bedchecks.

In light of what brought Petrino down, it seems funny now... but he brought law and order to the Hogs.

 

[sjt18]

I just wish people would realize change doesn't happen overnight.

Mostly because that is not true. Evidence of change may not be apparent right away... but change itself starts immediately. Change for the better is URGENT as much as anything else.

I believe he's "changed" "things"... I just want to see evidence that it is change in the right direction. Too many of you just assume that if its change it is good change... That's just not real world.

It's a process. Why do you think jones says "brick by brick" all the time? It's his hint to us that it's gonna take a few years.

He doesn't have to hint. And he has specifically rejected the notion that this is a throw away year. Working, effective "processes".... produce results. At a minimum, they produce measurable indicators that the process is working.

He knows how bad the talent is and that he doesn't have the players for his system yet.

Jones has never coached a more talented team... let that sink in a little while. The talent is not "bad". He certainly has thin spots. But you guys act like this is a Carson-Newman level roster or something.... just so you can deny to yourself that Jones and his staff have not coached particularly well against the first two major opponents they've faced.

He can't just come out and say it though and bash his current players. We expected to lose these two before the season idk why everyone seems so surprised.

I did not "expect" to lose to UF. I knew they were beatable... and they were.

 

[sjt18]

You are concluding how good this staff is after four games. THAT is ignorance.

No. I am not. Again, you turn a blind eye to the truth because it is inconvenient to you. The only "conclusions" I have made is that they have not coached to the level of the talent of this team in the last two games. That seems pretty apparent when you look at how other rosters fared against UF and Oregon.

Still looking for all this talent. Name names.

Still not interested in spoon feeding you when you are absolutely determined to deny there is any talent so you don't have to deal with the possibility that Jones may not be as great as you want to believe.

 

[LotteryPick]

Waiting on the names, still. Where's this talent?:whistling:

 

[LotteryPick]

No. I am not. Again, you turn a blind eye to the truth because it is inconvenient to you. The only "conclusions" I have made is that they have not coached to the level of the talent of this team in the last two games. That seems pretty apparent when you look at how other rosters fared against UF and Oregon.

Still not interested in spoon feeding you when you are absolutely determined to deny there is any talent so you don't have to deal with the possibility that Jones may not be as great as you want to believe.

You're just not able to support your opinion. That's all.

Come on, sjt, type me a novel.

 

[508mikey]

This is a tough-ass schedule we have this year! #1 and #2 on the road as well as old nemesis Florida and Missouri, where we have never played before.

Didnt you hear Verne say it was the toughest schedule in CFB history ?

 

[sjt18]

You're just not able to support your opinion. That's all.

Come on, sjt, type me a novel.

Do your own work... not interested in wasting my time with someone determined to be oblivious to fact.

We don't have to agree about what the facts mean... but there's no use in discussing them until you accept them. I'll just say this... the draft analysts have indicated that somewhere between 5-7 players on this roster totally devoid of talent are likely to be drafted.

 

[LotteryPick]

Do your own work... not interested in wasting my time with someone determined to be oblivious to fact.

We don't have to agree about what the facts mean... but there's no use in discussing them until you accept them. I'll just say this... the draft analysts have indicated that somewhere between 5-7 players on this roster totally devoid of talent are likely to be drafted.

You fail to acknowledge the walk ons and freshmen getting meaningful snaps.

Those 5-7 players are the offensive line, AJ, and McCullers; and they've all underachieved while at UT.

 

[DEFENDTHISHOUSE]

You fail to acknowledge the walk ons and freshmen getting meaningful snaps.

Those 5-7 players are the offensive line, AJ, and McCullers; and they've all underachieved while at UT.

Failing to do so destroys his entire argument. When our solid first team gets tired, we have 0 depth behind them.

You also have to consider the turmoil this team has been through the last 4-5 years, nearly a different coordinator every year, that is unheard of honestly.

 

[LotteryPick]

Failing to do so destroys his entire argument. When our solid first team gets tired, we have 0 depth behind them.

You also have to consider the turmoil this team has been through the last 4-5 years, nearly a different coordinator every year, that is unheard of honestly.

:salute:

 

[Grand Vol]

Mostly because that is not true. Evidence of change may not be apparent right away... but change itself starts immediately. Change for the better is URGENT as much as anything else.

I believe he's "changed" "things"... I just want to see evidence that it is change in the right direction. Too many of you just assume that if its change it is good change... That's just not real world.

He doesn't have to hint. And he has specifically rejected the notion that this is a throw away year. Working, effective "processes".... produce results. At a minimum, they produce measurable indicators that the process is working.

Jones has never coached a more talented team... let that sink in a little while. The talent is not "bad". He certainly has thin spots. But you guys act like this is a Carson-Newman level roster or something.... just so you can deny to yourself that Jones and his staff have not coached particularly well against the first two major opponents they've faced.


I did not "expect" to lose to UF. I knew they were beatable... and they were.

I picked this post out of your many in this thread to reply to. I just love it when you contradict yourself in the first two paragraphs....

Mostly because that is not true. Evidence of change may not be apparent right away... but change itself starts immediately. Change for the better is URGENT as much as anything else.

I believe he's "changed" "things"... I just want to see evidence that it is change in the right direction. Too many of you just assume that if its change it is good change... That's just not real world.

Bolded areas by your's truly.

So on one hand you say evidence of change "may not be apparent" then turn around and say "I want to see evidence."

Contradictory, no?

Seriously, throughout your meandering drivel you've posted up over the past week or so, I have come to deduce one of the following:

A: You have no idea what you're talking about

B: You are posting just to make noise

C: You like contradicting yourself

D: You are talking out your behind

E: All of the above

Leaning towards answer E for the moment...

Somehow you have elevated your own stature in being able to objectify the coaching abilities of one Butch Jones after precisely four games. And have already come to the decision in your mind he is unable to coach based on the fact he lost one of his two games to a top 5 offense and the other to a top 5 defense.

Makes sense, right? I mean, every first year coach in the NCAA can pull off a win against at least one of the two. Happens pretty often.

Not forgetting the fact Butch came from the MAC and the Big East to the toughest and most unforgiving conference in college ball as well as walking into the toughest schedule in the country. I don't give a darn what some people think of California's schedule, they sure don't have to play the #1 and #2 teams less than six weeks apart. Or the fact that 3 out of the 4 of those other weeks are loaded with top 25 teams. But Butch can perform miracles by turning around players that have seen three sets of coaching staffs in four years. And turn around the mismanaged and un-coached players in a matter of four games rather than over a season where real, measured progress can be obtained. He's a miracle worker that has to show you (or not, not sure what you want at this point) that he can compete by going into Oregon and spanking them hard. Or into the Swamp and putting a good old fashioned country butt whuppin on them Gators.

There were some mistakes made yesterday, sure. But sure as shooting, the defense had Driskel's number in the first quarter before he got hurt. And of course, Murphy showed up (both the player and the figurative one) and tossed a huge monkey wrench into our defensive plans that had been practiced all week.

But Butch was supposed to know all about this wonder kid that had never taken a snap in college ball and be able to defend against him. His bad, obviously.

Dude, you're a hot mess. There really is no other way of describing your posts and attitude towards this team's leadership.

I'll ask the same question I asked last week that I never got an answer to:

What makes you qualified to comment on or be able to critique Coach Butch Jones' abilities on the field?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[EZE]

E. All of the above.

 

[TBrown]

Butch's first season at Cincy was 4-8.

Miles went 4-7 his first season at Okie st.

Petrino went 5-7 first season at Arkansas.

Carroll went 6-6 first season at USC

Harbaugh went 4-8 first season at Stanford

Paterno went 5-5 first season at Penn St.

Majors struggled for several years.

Briles went 4-8 first season at Baylor

etc, etc

Many coaches have rough starts.

Not to mention our schedule.. And that we may have the worst QB situation in the BCS

 

[Spartacavolus]

:dance2:

Horsecrpppp.

UT has better RB's than UF. Theirs looked much worse today. They have talent but no experience at WR... coaches have to scheme to put them in positions to make plays. The starting secondary is not a bad unit nor do they lack talent. Swafford has played well and not just today.

The DL doesn't lack talent. It just doesn't. It was tough losing Salisbury. He was probably playing the best of any of them. But the DL has made plays.

Downs is underutilized... pretty much everyone else is hurt.

Where you see a lack of adequate QB talent... I see a scheme that doesn't give them opportunities to succeed. Seldom do they throw to receivers in voids created by the design of the play... and UT's young receivers aren't good enough to get open on their own very often yet.

And no... I'll keep watching thanks. Disagreeing with the blind about the color of the leaves doesn't somehow make me less of a lover of nature or less knowledgeable about trees.

-Brown is better than Neal
-our DE's are terrible and dt not making an impact. You think J Williams and J Smith are SEC caliber? Ask sc, bama, fla, lsu, and even Ole miss what de's and dt's look like
-Downs can barely run
-qb's are the worst we have ever had

Nobody has said the schemes are perfect and when installing a completely new system, it is painful at times. That doesn't mean the lack of talent is given a pass.