Is Judaism a Race

#76
#76
Vol8188 said:
Gypsies are considered a separate racial group. You specifically mentioned why he went after Jehovah Witnesses.

There's zero denying Hitler was motivated by race.
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But he was also motivated by factors besides race. Correct?
 
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#77
#77
Vol8188 said:
The left/right divisions don’t really apply well here. You’re better looking at them in terms of authoritarianism. In those terms you’ll find both extremely similar. Instead of fighting left vs right we should be fighting authoritarianism vs freedom
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I really agree with your last two sentences and that both are authoritarian. Traditionally and oversimplified, fascism is the owners of the means of production running the government (right) and socialism is the government running the means of production (left).
 
#78
#78
DonjoVol said:
But he was also motivated by factors besides race. Correct?
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Sure. It's rare anyone has only one motivating factor. But we shouldn't attempt to downplay the racial component of the Holocaust.
 
#79
#79
EasternVol said:
I really agree with your last two sentences and that both are authoritarian. Traditionally and oversimplified, fascism is the owners of the means of production running the government (right) and socialism is the government running the means of production (left).
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The difference in those two things is almost non existent. You see that right?
 
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#81
#81
Vol8188 said:
Seems like more weird "wokeness" from you. Specifically CRT and their "storytelling". You don't have to be Jewish to understand how Nazi's saw Jews as a separate race. You only need to be literate.
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Eh, not at all. Don't make up what's not there. Did I not say I thought it was racial? I also said someone with first hand knowledge could give a more knowledgeable explanation.
 
#82
#82
OrangeTsar said:
ABC/Disney has to either fire Whoopi or else rehire Gina Cerano to Mandalorian. They can’t have it both ways
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The crazy thing is only one of them seemed to be downplaying the holocaust (Whoopi). The other simply stated you shouldn't other people because that's how atrocities start.
 
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#83
#83
Vol8188 said:
The difference in those two things is almost non existent. You see that right?
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No, it's not. Let's say for example that fascism is Exxon Mobil and Ford and their friends controlling the government. Communism would be Bernie and his friends in government controlling Exxon Mobil and Ford. It's not the same.
 
#85
#85
Judaism is both a race and a religion. God chose a particular group of people as his spokespersons on Earth. He gave them a special sign of circumcision and warned them sternly about mixing with other tribes (probably knowing that intermarriage would lead to idols and foreign gods in the household. Outsiders could join but they had the receive circumcision and obey the Mosaic law.
The coming of Christ threw open the community of God to Jew and Gentile alike as Christ in his death brought both together into peace. But God has never abandoned Israel as a special chosen people and much evangelical end times belief has them playing a very central role as Christ establishes his actual physical rule on earth.
 
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#86
#86
EasternVol said:
No, it's not. Let's say for example that fascism is Exxon Mobil and Ford and their friends controlling the government. Communism would be Bernie and his friends in government controlling Exxon Mobil and Ford. It's not the same.
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CEOs as dictators or dictators as CEOs....that's the same thing. Do you want a **** sandwich or a sandwich made of ****?
 
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#89
#89
EasternVol said:
No, it's not. Let's say for example that fascism is Exxon Mobil and Ford and their friends controlling the government. Communism would be Bernie and his friends in government controlling Exxon Mobil and Ford. It's not the same.
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There is only a sliver of difference between the 2, both are authoritarian forms of government that ignore individual liberty.
 
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#90
#90
OrangeTsar said:
Judaism is both a race and a religion. God chose a particular group of people as his spokespersons on Earth. He gave them a special sign of circumcision and warned them sternly about mixing with other tribes (probably knowing that intermarriage would lead to idols and foreign gods in the household. Outsiders could join but they had the receive circumcision and obey the Mosaic law.
The coming of Christ threw open the community of God to Jew and Gentile alike as Christ in his death brought both together into peace. But God has never abandoned Israel as a special chosen people and much evangelical end times belief has them playing a very central role as Christ establishes his actual physical rule on earth.
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Except modern day Israel isn't the promised land. That's in what is now Saudi Arabia.
 
#91
#91
Vol8188 said:
CEOs as dictators or dictators as CEOs....that's the same thing. Do you want a **** sandwich or a sandwich made of ****?
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Look at the differences between the German economy under the Nazis and the Soviets at the same time. Both are **** sandwiches but how they're made are very different.
 
#92
#92
EasternVol said:
Look at the differences between the German economy under the Nazis and the Soviets at the same time. Both are **** sandwiches but how they're made are very different.
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What we should take from both is simple. Authoritarian control of your economy, your life, your speech, your ability to arm yourself, your ability to own/operate a business, etc, are evil.
 
#94
#94
I guess we could say slavery wasn’t about race either if we’re going to split hairs. I mean it was just some uncivilized culture that sold some of their own people that in the long run have it better off.
 
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#95
#95
Vol8188 said:
Sure. It's rare anyone has only one motivating factor. But we shouldn't attempt to downplay the racial component of the Holocaust.
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Nobody is downplaying it in my opinion. But I think most can agree that race wasn't the only factor.
 
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#96
#96
C-south said:
I guess we could say slavery wasn’t about race either if we’re going to split hairs. I mean it was just some uncivilized culture that sold some of their own people that in the long run have it better off.
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It was just "mankind's indecency" is that what she called it? Or we could go with the Illhan Omar, "some people, did something"
 
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#98
#98
OHvol40 said:
Judaism itself is not a race, but people that hail from traditionally Jewish areas of the world are unique. They have discernible DNA from others as well as unique health predispositions and physical characteristics. If you want to call this a “race”, fine, if not, that’s fine too… I say who cares.
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They were originally a conglomeration of many different peoples and ethnicities, black, Arab and lighter skinned people's from the region.

I agree, technically you can argue from either side and given context you could support your position with fact.

What Whoopie did here was reduce a very complicated and tragic chapter in history to "they all white anyway". It was a very shallow and hurtful way to present the discussion.
 
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#99
#99
Gandalf said:
To put it gently as I can, you seem to be ignorant of the difference between:

1. Judaism = a religion
2. Jew = a race of Semitic people with certain haplotypes
3. Israeli = a citizen of the nation of Israel

You can "convert" to Judaism, you cannot "decide to convert" and become a Jew. You can become an Israeli without being ethnically Jewish or an adherent to Judaism

What Hitler wanted to wipe out was the particular genetic traits of the Jews he saw as inferior to the characteristics of the "Teutonic race".

A link for you on that "google" place Who is a Jew? - Wikipedia
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Heh. My pipeweed-imbibing buddy Merriam disagrees, oh Gandolf Greyhame...

Jew

\ ˈjü \
Definition of Jew

1: a person belonging to a continuation through descent or conversion of the ancient Jewish people
2: one whose religion is Judaism
3a: a member of the tribe of Judah
b: ISRAELITE
4: a member of a nation existing in Palestine from the sixth century b.c. to the first century a.d.

Further...

"A person who converts to Judaism becomes a Jew in every sense of the word, and is just as Jewish as someone born into Judaism. There is a good precedent for this; Ruth, the great-great grandmother of King David, was a convert. Note: Not all Jewish conversions are accepted by all Jews." Link and Link

SammyDavisJr (1).jpg
 
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#100
#100
Vol8188 said:
Seems like more weird "wokeness" from you. Specifically CRT and their "storytelling". You don't have to be Jewish to understand how Nazi's saw Jews as a separate race. You only need to be literate.
Click to expand...

So let's not let facts get in the way of this debate.

The Nuremberg Laws enacted in 1935 in Nazi Germany stated the following definition of a "Jew":

"While both the Interior Ministry and the Nazi Party agreed that persons with three or more Jewish grandparents would be classed as being Jewish and those with only one (Mischlinge of the second degree) would not, a debate arose as to the status of persons with two Jewish grandparents (Mischlinge of the first degree).[50] The Nazi Party, especially its more radical elements, wanted the laws to apply to Mischlinge of both the first and second degree.[51] For this reason Hitler continued to stall, and did not make a decision until early November 1935. His final ruling was that persons with three Jewish grandparents were classed as Jewish; those with two Jewish grandparents would be considered Jewish only if they practiced the faith or had a Jewish spouse."

Thus, someone having a Jewish religious faith DID, in fact, have direct bearing on whether or not that person was considered a "Jew" in Nazi Germany if that person had 2 or less "Jewish" grandparents.

So, it's not all "race" which is a complete misnomer in the first place.

Also, let's not forget Hitler was a homicidal maniac. Relying on his definitions of race or, well, anything, is like the blind leading the blind.
 
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