Is secession the answer?

#554
#554
DynaLo said:
A new poll commissioned by the University of Virginia’s Center for Politics indicates a sizable proportion of Americans support the concept of secession from the Union, 52% & 41%.

52% of Trump voters agreed that the situation in America is such that I would favor red states seceding from the Union to form their own country.

41% of Biden voters agreed that the situation in America is such that I would favor blue states seceding from the Union to form their own country.

In a February Zogby poll, 46% of Americans have previously expressed their view that the United States is destined for another Civil War.

“The divide between Trump and Biden voters is deep, wide, and dangerous. The scope is unprecedented, and it will not be easily fixed,” said UVA Center for Politics Director Larry J. Sabato of the poll. The UVA poll questioned 1,001 Trump voters and 1,011 Biden voters from July to August.
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And that is one scary ass observation if it accurately represents the feelings of the country. It crosses party lines. 41% of Dems hold the same view as the Repubs who are a majority view at 52%. That should scare the hell out of the Feds but they are asleep at the wheel.
 
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#560
#560
NorthDallas40 said:
And that is one scary ass observation if it accurately represents the feelings of the country. It crosses party lines. 40% of Dems hold the same view as the Repubs who are a majority view at 52%. That should scare tye hell out of the Feds but they are asleep at the wheel.
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Yep, and with just a tad over 2000 respondents in a nearly 50/50 demographic it’s a pretty solid poll, as polls go.
Since they went with voters and not party affiliations you have to think there are some Independents thrown in on both sides as well.
 
#561
#561
I really wish there were a way to just succeed from the government and replace them with people who actually listen to their constituents. Maybe one day we'll have a way to review their behavior and decide if we want them replaced on a fairly regular basis.
 
#562
#562
So here is one scary ass table from the study dynalo posted. The divide and distrust crosses party lines very clearly. That is going to be a huge impediment on compromise and functioning legislative branches both federal and state.

Edit: look at the middle question. A majority on both sides are literally asking for a dominant cult of personality that aligns with their views. Scary stuff

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#564
#564
clarksvol00 said:
A) you're not going to get a majority anytime soon; b) we're not majority rule, we're a representative democracy (you might get the TN legislature to vote for it if you tell them we're forming Trumpistan); c) you're doing the same thing to the people that don't want to leave that you're complaining about (making political decisions that affect them even though they don't like that decision).
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At the state level we are majority rule under a representative system. It's interesting how many on the left celebrate majority rule when states enact legislation restricting liberties/rights but bemoan for most everything else.

And we're talking state level here so leave the EC out of the discussion please.
 
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#565
#565
hog88 said:
At the state level we are majority rule under a representative system. It's interesting how many on the left celebrate majority rule when states enact legislation restricting liberties/rights but bemoan for most everything else.

And we're talking state level here so leave the EC out of the discussion please.
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Please stop focusing on posters and look at substance.
 
#566
#566
AshG said:
Another crazy idea: convince everyone who disagrees that your way of life is better and they should convert to it.

What exactly would make MeMyselfandIstan such a glorious utopia? How would the citizens safeguard against the siren call of other ideologies?
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If we just respected individual liberty and left people alone nobody has to convert to anything. Nobody has to be convinced of anything but since we have the almighty federal government and the left ignoring this simple idea here we are.
 
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#567
#567
hog88 said:
If we just respected individual liberty and left people alone nobody has to convert to anything. Nobody has to be convinced of anything but since we have the almighty federal government and the left ignoring this simple idea here we are.
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If only our stupid ass federal government had stuck to the charter they were given at our formation where we were setup as a federalist government. Now they’re pushing for a unitary architecture which was never our intent.
 
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#568
#568
hog88 said:
If we just respected individual liberty and left people alone nobody has to convert to anything. Nobody has to be convinced of anything but since we have the almighty federal government and the left ignoring this simple idea here we are.
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And by left alone, you mean that people would have the right to not like gay marriage and legal marijuana but would let the people who want them have them. For example.
 
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#569
#569
hog88 said:
At the state level we are majority rule under a representative system. It's interesting how many on the left celebrate majority rule when states enact legislation restricting liberties/rights but bemoan for most everything else.

And we're talking state level here so leave the EC out of the discussion please.
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This secession pipe dream is the flip side of that coin.

What does the EC have to do with this?
 
#572
#572
clarksvol00 said:
This secession pipe dream is the flip side of that coin.

What does the EC have to do with this?
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The EC has nothing to do with this but it's the usual go to for many left leaning posters in these discussions.

Secession isn't the dream, it would be a nightmare. The dream is to scale back the federal government to pre Lincoln days.
 
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#573
#573
AshG said:
And by left alone, you mean that people would have the right to not like gay marriage and legal marijuana but would let the people who want them have them. For example.
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That’s absolutely what he’s saying. The board is largely Libertarian in our expressed views. You do you and I’ll do me. I don’t really approve of how you do you but that’s none of my business. Government should largely be neutral on these issues.
 
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#574
#574
This country has never been more divided since the civil war. Neither side seems interested in healing the divide. In fact they seem happy to stoke the fires of discord for gain.

Secession may be a part of the answer but reigning in our government needs to happen first, then let the other chips fall where they may.

JMO
 
#575
#575
hog88 said:
The EC has nothing to do with this but it's the usual go to for many left leaning posters in these discussions.

Secession isn't the dream, it would be a nightmare. The dream is to scale back the federal government to pre Lincoln days.
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I can understand your logic on wanting to change the government, but I don't see seccession as a viable answer. If it happened, all you get is people who want their state to leave, making the decision to leave for the people who don't want it... kind of the same grievance that the secession talk is based on.

It's simply replacing one government that you don't like, with one somebody else may not like. You may say its majority rule, but the state governments are mostly set up the same as the federal government on a smaller scale. Secession is just creating a different disaffected group.
 
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