Is secession the answer?

#576
#576
clarksvol00 said:
I can understand your logic on wanting to change the government, but I don't see seccession as a viable answer. If it happened, all you get is people who want their state to leave, making the decision to leave for the people who don't want it... kind of the same grievance that the secession talk is based on.

It's simply replacing one government that you don't like, with one somebody else may not like. You may say its majority rule, but the state governments are mostly set up the same as the federal government on a smaller scale. Secession is just creating a different disaffected group.
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The federal government was never meant to be the arch type model for the states. In the beginning the states were meant to be largely self governing. We have massively moved away from that initial model and the Democrats want MOAR movement towards a strong unitary government.
 
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#577
#577
NorthDallas40 said:
The federal government was never meant to be the arch type model for the states. In the beginning the states were meant to be largely self governing. We have massively moved away from that initial model and the Democrats want MOAR movement towards a strong unitary government.
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And their ultimate goal is one world government.
 
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#581
#581
NorthDallas40 said:
We absolutely have a large group of legislators as well as private sector lobbyists pushing us towards globalism. Another concept we had no intention of supporting in our founding.
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When Trilateralist Commission Bush said New World Order everyone thought conspiracy
even Chomsky discussed the danger
 
#584
#584
AshG said:
No! They are historical documents sent back to us from the future in order to steer us towards a marvelous utopia!
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Well at least there might be some truth in the prediction. Remember the Vulcans made contact with Zefram Cochrane when they detected the warp signature of his ship. Which launched from North America in a post world war apocalypse environment 🤷‍♂️
 
#586
#586
clarksvol00 said:
I can understand your logic on wanting to change the government, but I don't see seccession as a viable answer. If it happened, all you get is people who want their state to leave, making the decision to leave for the people who don't want it... kind of the same grievance that the secession talk is based on.

It's simply replacing one government that you don't like, with one somebody else may not like. You may say its majority rule, but the state governments are mostly set up the same as the federal government on a smaller scale. Secession is just creating a different disaffected group.
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Before the Southern states filed their secession papers each state’s population voted on it. It took 3 different and distinct rounds of voting in Tennessee before they had enough yes/for votes for a majority and filed their secession papers. That third and final vote is when East TN ultimately agreed with secession.
 
#587
#587
NorthDallas40 said:
The federal government was never meant to be the arch type model for the states. In the beginning the states were meant to be largely self governing. We have massively moved away from that initial model and the Democrats want MOAR movement towards a strong unitary government.
Click to expand...
You can have whatever thoughts you want about the federal government, but the problems with secession don't go away whether your grievances are accurate or not. Even if the states were to become largely self-governing, it doesn't mean that there aren't going to be people who feel they are getting run over by a government they disagree with.
 
#588
#588
clarksvol00 said:
You can have whatever thoughts you want about the federal government, but the problems with secession don't go away whether your grievances are accurate or not. Even if the states were to become largely self-governing, it doesn't mean that there aren't going to be people who feel they are getting run over by a government they disagree with.
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What does this rambling diatribe have to do with the false assertion you made on federal vs state organizational structure?
 
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#589
#589
NorthDallas40 said:
What does this rambling diatribe have to do with the false assertion you made on federal vs state organizational structure?
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The states, like the federal government, are mostly set up with bicameral legislatures consisting of a house with more members who represent smaller districts and a senate with fewer members and larger districts, an executive, and a judiciary. There is nothing false about that.

Edit: It is the exact same system that has led to the overreaching of the federal government that people claim as a basis for secession.
 
#590
#590
clarksvol00 said:
The states, like the federal government, are mostly set up with bicameral legislatures consisting of a house with more members who represent smaller districts and a senate with fewer members and larger districts, an executive, and a judiciary. There is nothing false about that.
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This has nothing to do with the intra body organization. The federal government was never meant to have significant oversight over individual citizens that power was vested purely in the states. We are a federalist government by design. We are not a unitary state like France which is what the left leaning population is pushing (yes, like yourself). Your whole diatribe today has been focused on if people don’t like it then leave. Well it turns out the left leaning people are in error in how we are all organized. So I guess all y’all should leave then?
 
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#591
#591
NorthDallas40 said:
This has nothing to do with the intra body organization. The federal government was never meant to have significant oversight over individual citizens that power was vested purely in the states. We are a federalist government by design. We are not a unitary state like France which is what the left leaning population is pushing (yes, like yourself). Your whole diatribe today has been focused on if people don’t like it then leave. Well it turns out the left leaning people are in error in how we are all organized. So I guess all y’all should leave then?
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If you haven't figured out my point by now you're not going to.
 
#594
#594
Rasputin_Vol said:
Yes
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My first thought was yes, but that depends. Are you talking about perhaps Atlanta seceding from GA and being like the 52nd state ... with their own two new senators and however many representatives? Multiple cities doing that would turn the country blue overnight and still not solve our problems. It would take moving cities and letting them have their own country and the rest of us our own country for the non-urban areas to win back their control.
 
#595
#595
AM64 said:
My first thought was yes, but that depends. Are you talking about perhaps Atlanta seceding from GA and being like the 52nd state ... with their own two new senators and however many representatives? Multiple cities doing that would turn the country blue overnight and still not solve our problems. It would take moving cities and letting them have their own country and the rest of us our own country for the non-urban areas to win back their control.
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I think a better thing to do is accept that demographics change over time and continue to contribute as much as we can. And for those in the majority, accept the contributions from people with different backgrounds and influences.

If we try to stay stuck in a single moment of time because it may be advantageous to our point of view, we end up losing so much in the process.
 
#596
#596
AshG said:
I think a better thing to do is accept that demographics change over time and continue to contribute as much as we can. And for those in the majority, accept the contributions from people with different backgrounds and influences.

If we try to stay stuck in a single moment of time because it may be advantageous to our point of view, we end up losing so much in the process.
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Demographics, race, religion, sexual preference, ext wouldn't matter if everyone simply respected individual rights and liberties.
 
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#597
#597
DynaLo said:
Before the Southern states filed their secession papers each state’s population voted on it. It took 3 different and distinct rounds of voting in Tennessee before they had enough yes/for votes for a majority and filed their secession papers. That third and final vote is when East TN ultimately agreed with secession.
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East Tennessee never supported secession except for a few individual counties like Polk and Sullivan. The last vote showed East Tennessee voting 2-1 against.
Tennessee secedes from the Union, June 8, 1861
 
#598
#598
NorthDallas40 said:
This has nothing to do with the intra body organization. The federal government was never meant to have significant oversight over individual citizens that power was vested purely in the states. We are a federalist government by design. We are not a unitary state like France which is what the left leaning population is pushing (yes, like yourself). Your whole diatribe today has been focused on if people don’t like it then leave. Well it turns out the left leaning people are in error in how we are all organized. So I guess all y’all should leave then?
Click to expand...

As an example of how ignorant many citizens are today, if you remember in more recent elections many democrat voters were shocked to learn that federal elections aren't won by the sheer number of votes and how the electoral college works. I learned this simple principle in grade school, along with the term naturalization. The method illegal aliens become legal. This term is rarely used when discussing immigration and while some know better, I am guessing others are clueless what it is.
 
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#599
#599
I don't think secession is a viable option. We are very interspersed even in the most politically polarized areas. I am not sure about our nation's future however. I feel no commonality with today's progressive movement. In reality I am repulsed by them and it is hard to live side by side with someone you feel that way about.

I am diametrically opposite to their views on abortion, immigration, wealth redistribution, BLM and Antifa idiocy, gun rights, their ridiculous sexual orientation nonsense, attack on energy production, over regulation, scope of governance, property and business owners rights and their negative attitude towards the importance of the traditional family unit.

They bristle when the concept of an American culture is held in regard in favor of an anti American slant. They worship at the altars of wokeness, atheism or some radical cult of animal rights or mother earth crap. Christianity of course is verboten in their world.

As each year passes we grow farther apart anf they seem more foreign. In years past as the radical left aged they became more sane as wisdom and the realization that the taxman really wasn't their friend settled them down and made them more tolerable. Now the stupid seems to deeply rooted for any wisdom to creep into their warped psyche.
 
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#600
#600
agVOL90 said:
I don't think secession is a viable option. We are very interspersed even in the most politically polarized areas. I am not sure about our nation's future however. I feel no commonality with today's progressive movement. In reality I am repulsed by them and it is hard to live side by side with someone you feel that way about.

I am diametrically opposite to their views on abortion, immigration, wealth redistribution, BLM and Antifa idiocy, gun rights, their ridiculous sexual orientation nonsense, attack on energy production, over regulation, scope of governance, property and business owners rights and their negative attitude towards the importance of the traditional family unit.

They bristle when the concept of an American culture is held in regard in favor of an anti American slant. They worship at the altars of wokeness, atheism or some radical cult of animal rights or mother earth crap. Christianity of course is verboten in their world.

As each year passes we grow farther apart anf they seem more foreign. In years past as the radical left aged they became more sane as wisdom and the realization that the taxman really wasn't their friend settled them down and made them more tolerable. Now the stupid seems to deeply rooted for any wisdom to creep into their warped psyche.
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The left looks to destroy everything and anybody in its wake. The nonsense has even gotten out of hand even for many democrats. It is destroying and used against people it was designed to help. It is a plague.

Our allies are seeing it. Our enemies are enjoying it. We have let the stupid and lazy gain a powerful voice in this country triggered by the MSM and social media.
 
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