Is UT or Florida the 2nd Best SEC Program?

[lawgator1]

You posted all that because UF doesn't have an indoor football facility.

We could. Just got to sell a bunch more Gatorade.

 

[TUSKtimes]

We could. Just got to sell a bunch more Gatorade.

When you quit investing in all these non profit sport activities, It's amazing how many cool football facilities you can build.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

But what's funny is that even from 1926, you're wrong: Even counting vacations and forfeits, Alabama is #2 behind Oklahoma. (OU 685, Bama 675, UT 669).

WiseOlVol was wrong about something?

I find that difficult not to believe.

 

[bamawriter]

The better way to do this would be to rank each team in a variety of categories, then take the average rank:

Since 1933, and not counting the 4 non-founding members:

Wins:
1. Alabama - 622
2. Tennessee - 608
3. Georgia - 592
4. LSU - 572
5. Florida - 549
6. Auburn - 542
7. Ole Miss - 498
8. MSU - 387
9. Kentucky - 382
10. Vandy - 315

SEC Win % (Going with % here because there are years that some teams played more conference games than others):
1. Alabama - 0.698
2. Tennessee - 0.630
3. Georgia - 0.601
4. Florida - 0.588
5. LSU - 0.580
6. Auburn - 0.550
7. Ole Miss - 0.481
8. MSU - 0.351
9. Kentucky - 0.310
10. Vandy - 0.254

Conference Championships:
1. Alabama - 23
2. Tennessee - 13
3. Georgia - 12
4. LSU - 11
5. Florida - 8
6. Auburn - 7
7. Ole Miss - 6
8. Kentucky - 2
9. MSU - 1
10. Vandy - 0

Bowl Appearances:
1. Alabama - 56
2. Tennessee - 49
3. Georgia - 48
4. LSU - 44
5. Florida - 40
6. Auburn - 37
7. Ole Miss - 34
8. MSU - 16
9. Kentucky - 15
10. Vandy - 6

Bowl Wins:
1. Alabama - 32
2. Georgia - 27
3. Tennessee - 25
4 (t). Auburn - 22
4 (t). LSU - 22
4 (t). Ole Miss - 22
7. Florida - 20
8. MSU - 9
9. Kentcky - 8
10. Vandy - 3

National Championships (as recognized by CFDW)
1. Alabama - 11
2. Tennessee - 4
3 (t). LSU - 3
3 (t). Florida - 3
5 (t). Georgia - 2
5 (t). Ole Miss - 2
5 (t). Auburn - 2
8 (t). MSU - 0
8 (t). Kentucky - 0
8 (t). Vandy - 0

Final Rankings (using the average ranking from above):
1. Alabama (1)
2. Tennessee (2.167)
3. Georgia (3.167)
4. LSU (4)
5. Florida (4.833)
6. Auburn (5.5)
7. Ole Miss (6.167)
8. MSU (8.167)
9. Kentucky (8.667)
10. Vandy (9.667)

 

[MAD]

Without a doubt Florida is the 2nd Best SEC Program.

The other 13 SEC Programs all tied for 1st.

 

[bamawriter]

Without a doubt Florida is the 2nd Best SEC Program.

The other 13 SEC Programs all tied for 1st.

I'm not a math major, but if 13 SEC programs were tied for 1st, that would make Florida 14th.

 

[WiseOlVol]

There are many teams that could come up with a criteria that they would want to use to feel good about themselves, even if not currently really on the radar.

Lehigh University can claim to be a major program because their program dates to 1894, and they are among those that have played the most games (1,241). They've won 10 conference titles in 20 years. How many has UT won in that time frame?

The University of Michigan and the University of Pennsylvania might want to argue that seating capacity for their stadiums makes them 1-2 (UT would be third under that criteria).

You could come up with others, depending on how you want your program to come out in the rankings as "relevant."

UT has simply not been a force in the conference, or nationally (because if you are a factor in the SEC, you matter nationally) for about ten years, and you have had a losing record four of the last five years.

That will obviously not continue, but pretending that success in the 1920's, or even the 1980's, gives you some kind of a pass is just self-delusional.

Okay, let's go back 8 years: From 1989-2004, UT won more games than anybody in FBS -- 157.

Also, the stats I'm quoting relate to SEC and FBS teams, which was the point of the article.

 

[bamawriter]

Okay, let's go back 8 years: From 1989-2004, UT won more games than anybody -- 157.

First, what the heck does this even mean? How is this random 16 year period relevant to the discussion?

Second, I assume you mean "more games than anybody in the SEC, because UT is only 4th nationally during the span you threw out there.

*Edit: You actually went back and added "in FBS", which makes your statement 100% false.

Also, the stats I'm quoting relate to SEC and FBS teams, which was the point of the article.

The article is not about SEC and FBS teams, it is only about SEC teams. If you were actually arguing both, it makes your above point even more ridiculous.

 

[WiseOlVol]

WiseOlVol was wrong about something?

I find that difficult not to believe.

I'll check the math again and get back to you. As of Derek Dooley's 1st day, UT and OU were tied for wins from 1926.

What's "funny," to quote BamaWriter, is that UT was #1 (since 1926) in 1974 as well. [See ABC Broadcast of UT-UCLA game 9/16/74.] Not a Johnny-Come-Lately.

And before you remind me how well Alabama has done vs. UT recently, Fulmer was 11-5 vs. Alabama, including a 7-game streak. He's only been gone 5 years. If you want to go back a bit, Alabama beat UT exactly 5 times from 1938-1960 (23 seasons). Sort of puts into perspective Alabama's current 6 and earlier 11 game streaks vs. UT.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

First, what the heck does this even mean? How is this random 16 year period relevant to the discussion?

Second, I assume you mean "more games than anybody in the SEC, because UT is only 4th nationally during the span you threw out there.

*Edit: You actually went back and added "in FBS", which makes your statement 100% false.



The article is not about SEC and FBS teams, it is only about SEC teams. If you were actually arguing both, it makes your above point even more ridiculous.

opcorn:

 

[WiseOlVol]

opcorn:

Operator Error. SEC.

It's relevant because you said I was relying only on 20s and 80s records.

 

[bamawriter]

I'll check the math again and get back to you. As of Derek Dooley's 1st day, UT and OU were tied for wins from 1926.

I'll help you:

1989-2004

1926-2012

What's "funny," to quote BamaWriter, is that UT was #1 (since 1926) in 1974 as well. [See ABC Broadcast of UT-UCLA game 9/16/74.] Not a Johnny-Come-Lately.

I'll be darned, you got one right!

1926-1974

That said, I have absolutely no idea what a 49 year time frame that ended 39 years ago has to do with the discussion at hand, but congrats.

And before you remind me how well Alabama has done vs. UT recently, Fulmer was 11-5 vs. Alabama, including a 7-game streak. He's only been gone 5 years. If you want to go back a bit, Alabama beat UT exactly 5 times from 1938-1960 (23 seasons). Sort of puts into perspective Alabama's current 6 and earlier 11 game streaks vs. UT.

Well that's just super.

 

[WiseOlVol]

BTW, are there any SEC teams will more wins from 1989-2004?

 

[bamawriter]

Operator Error. SEC.

It's relevant because you said I was relying only on 20s and 80s records.

So, instead you pick a random 16 year span that's as close as you can get to the current day without making UT's numbers head south? Not sure this is helping your argument.

BTW, are there any SEC teams will more wins from 1989-2004?

Nope. But why in the world is that significant?

 

[WiseOlVol]

I'll help you:

1989-2004

1926-2012

I'll be darned, you got one right!

1926-1974

That said, I have absolutely no idea what a 49 year time frame that ended 39 years ago has to do with the discussion at hand, but congrats.

Well that's just super.

I'm not certain whether Stassen excludes Alabama's forfeited games. Even if he does, that still puts UT in at #2 in the SEC (and only after one of its worst patches).

The fact is that no other SEC team is in these categories, and next to Alabama, UT leads the SEC in all of them.

Is the question who's the best of all-time, or just the last few years? If, as I believe the case, the answer is the former, then over 120 years, UT is 2nd, and for several lengthy terms during that period, UT was ahead of Alabama (and no other team ever was).

Did you check whether I'm correct that for all-time wins, for all the bluster, Alabama leads UT by only 29 games?

 

[bamawriter]

I'm not certain whether Stassen excludes Alabama's forfeited games. Even if he does, that still puts UT in at #2 in the SEC (and only after one of its worst patches).

Yep.

Is the question who's the best of all-time, or just the last few years? If, as I believe the case, the answer is the former, then over 120 years, UT is 2nd, and for several lengthy terms during that period, UT was ahead of Alabama (and no other team ever was).

The question is about the history of the SEC. SO 1933-Present. And yes, UT is undoubtedly second. But, as I showed before, when taking in all relevant factors, UGA is closer to overtaking UT than UT is to overtaking Bama.

Did you check whether I'm correct that for all-time wins, for all the bluster, Alabama leads UT by only 29 games?

Officially, Alabama leads Tennessee by 28 wins all-time. Given that we forfeited or vacated 29 wins, it's fairly telling that the gap is still that big.

 

[WiseOlVol]

So, instead you pick a random 16 year span that's as close as you can get to the current day without making UT's numbers head south? Not sure this is helping your argument.

Nope. But why in the world is that significant?

Cos a Gator poster said I'm delusional for relying only on records from the 20s and 80s. Now I've also addressed records in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 90s, 00s and 10s.

Note: Alabama and UF fans would not be here if they didn't believe UT was justified in claiming the #2 spot.

BTW, I'm about the only UT fan who is fine with Alabama's success (except 3rd sat in oct). As the only team to have played Alabama every year for about 100 years, and to have had the success UT has had, UT's historical record looks better when Alabama's does well.

 

[thebjd]

1998 was the only possibility of a UF-UT national title rematch, had UF not lost to FSU.

1996 possibly without the UT loss to Memphis but UF would have needed to beat FSU.

 

[Titans Fan]

If Saban never came to Bama, it would be interesting to see the top 5 SEC teams.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

1996 possibly without the UT loss to Memphis but UF would have needed to beat FSU.

Lots of moving parts in 1996...UF needed a huge Texas upset in the Big XII title game and a Buckeye win in the Rose Bowl for that '97 Sugar Bowl to mean anything.

What's ironic is, had UF beaten FSU in the regular season finale, and everything else unfolds exactly as it did afterwards, chances are UF and FSU would have had a rematch anyway.

But to your point, I thought UF was locked into the Sugar Bowl that year for winning the SEC, regardless of UT winning or losing to Memphis.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

If Saban never came to Bama, it would be interesting to see the top 5 SEC teams.

Not sure if serious.

 

[Titans Fan]

Not sure if serious.

He probably doesn't bring down Meyer and Fulmer - possibly Tubbs run at Auburn either.

 

[Lawrence Wright]

He probably doesn't bring down Meyer and Fulmer - possibly Tubbs run at Auburn either.

Bama is still #1 all-time whether or not Saban ever coached a game there, and UT is still #2.

 

[bamawriter]

He probably doesn't bring down Meyer and Fulmer - possibly Tubbs run at Auburn either.

Really wouldn't change the all-time rankings.

 

[Titans Fan]

Really wouldn't change the all-time rankings.

Really depends on how the last six years went with UT and Florida. Urban's still there probably, Bama would be a question mark, and UT after Dave Clawson would be a question mark but Fulmer still coaching.