Is UT or Florida the 2nd Best SEC Program?

#127
#127
C1Vol1 said:
It's likely that demographics will likely lead to Florida being better by the time the world ends. BUT... Steve Spurrier is still from Tennessee and Steve Spurrier will never be general Neyland.

The likelihood of a huge UFAD error based on the Sugar Bowl attendance is very high.
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what?
 
#129
#129
daj2576 said:
Explain to me why a Heisman matters?

It is a trophy given to a player without any sort of defined criteria, voted on by past recipients and certain members of the media.

It is heavily influenced by lobbying from teams, exposure and pressure by the media, and has no definitive criteria.

The Heisman has some historical significance, but the past 20 years has proven (at least to me) that it might be one step above a Nickelodean Kid's choice award.
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I disagree, with the Kid's Choice Awards at least you can see why the kids did or didn't vote for someone, they have actual criteria to be nominated and to win.
 
#131
#131
While I'm proud of UT's history and firmly believe we're second, in the end football is about what have you done for me lately. And in that area we are far from successful. These types of threads are for those who want to remember the "good ol' times" of a program that has seen very little success recently. Listen, being a fan isn't about rooting for the best. If UT was ranked middle of the pack I would still be proud of our football program and cheer them on. My loyalty runs deeper then history. I became a fan of Tennessee because when we moved to Tennessee from Alaska, when I was twelve, I had never seen a college game. My first college football experience was Neyland Stadium, Tennessee football, and I was never the same. I did not know, at the time, the history, nor the passion, and the greatness that is UT football. I fell in love with that lovely semi-weird color orange, and Rocky Top sank into my very bones because they called out to me and touched my spirit, not because of history or records. Sure, that passion runs deep because of the tradition of success here, but I know just as many loyal and passionate fans all over the country, who root for their teams even though they are not nearly as successful as UT. Being a fan should be about more then success. The team's success or lack there of, says nothing about the fans who follow them. Every fan should think of their program as great in some way and all fans have hope that their school will become great or return to greatness.

Looking backwards is vanity of vanities. Looking backwards in times of trouble brings only heart break and sorrow for those who remember "the good times." In the Old Testament, when ancient Israel returned from exile and rebuilt the temple, the new generation rejoiced because of what they had accomplished! But the old generation, those who could remember, wept because the new temple was a mere shadow compared to the mighty temple of Solomon before its destruction by the Babylonians. The new temple was much smaller and was not as beautiful as Solomon's. Rather then appreciating the revitalization of their nation, their temple, and what they had- they wept for what they lacked. Tennessee is more then its past. Lets rejoice in the hope we have for a (possible) rekindling of former glory, though it may never compare. Butch is rebuilding the temple and I am of the new generation. A new day is dawning, and I will rejoice in its fruition.

(Sorry to get all Old Testament on you all but it was a good metaphor. Also I'm working on a Master's in Theology and have taken many courses on Old Testament theology...thus its on my mind often for school.)
 
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#132
#132
bamawriter said:
You first. Please give a brief synopsis as to why a particular title is a bad claim.

And you can skip 1941 because I admit that claim is horrible.
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All the ones pre ww2 are given out by random voting services so there are like 10 schools claiming that shut every year.
 
#133
#133
volsohard16 said:
All the ones pre ww2 are given out by random voting services so there are like 10 schools claiming that shut every year.
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Fair enough. So you consider Bama's claims to '25, '26, '30, '34, & '41 to be bad. UT's claims to '38 and '40 pre-date WWII, so I'm sure you don't like those.

Now, the whole "random services" thing needs some clarification. The consensus championship label started in 1950, and I'm guessing this is what you were referring to when you referenced WWII and you were simply off by 5 years. So I'm guessing you only believe consensus titles should count, so you don't agree with UT's claims to '50 and '67.

Help me out if I'm wrong.
 
#136
#136
daj2576 said:
Explain to me why a Heisman matters?

It is a trophy given to a player without any sort of defined criteria, voted on by past recipients and certain members of the media.

It is heavily influenced by lobbying from teams, exposure and pressure by the media, and has no definitive criteria.

The Heisman has some historical significance, but the past 20 years has proven (at least to me) that it might be one step above a Nickelodean Kid's choice award.
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Great Post. Agree 100%.
 
#137
#137
bamawriter said:
Take it easy, newbie. Tennessee has more than their share of crap title claims.
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To be fair, the only questionable title claim is 1967, but there are justifications if you want me to tell you.

However, UT doesn't claim 1939, a year where they went undefeated, untied and unscored upon in the regular season. How does that team not win the NC?!!!! So UT's 6 is about right.
 
#138
#138
Lawrence Wright said:
:blink:

The demographics of Florida will keep UF at a home-grown talent advantage for the foreseeable future. Many people forget the state of Florida wasn't always the most populated state in the Sec.
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Florida has always had better HS football than Tenn, and Alabama. They got good bcause of improved coaching (Spurrier and Meyer),and during an era when Fsu and the U were at their peak and also recruiting the state. SoCal, Bama, mich and now even Tennessee are grabbing top Florida HS talent. UF enjoys no natural recruiting advantage.
 
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#139
#139
WiseOlVol said:
Florida has always had better HS football than Tenn, and Alabama. They got good bcause of improved coaching (Spurrier and Meyer),and during an era when Fsu and the U were at their peak and also recruiting the state. SoCal, Bama, mich and now even Tennessee are grabbing top Florida HS talent. UF enjoys no natural recruiting advantage.
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Right. No recruiting advantage. Got it
 
#141
#141
WiseOlVol said:
To be fair, the only questionable title claim is 1967, but there are justifications if you want me to tell you.
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I know the justifications, and they are terrible.

And 1940 is also an awful claim. 1950 isn't great either, but it's on the line so I won't argue that one.

However, UT doesn't claim 1939, a year where they went undefeated, untied and unscored upon in the regular season. How does that team not win the NC?!!!! So UT's 6 is about right.
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Bama doesn't claim 1945 when we went unbeaten and demolished USC in the Rose Bowl. We also don't claim 1966 when we were the only unbeaten and untied team in the country. We also don't claim 1977 when Notre Dame was inexplicably jumped over us in the final polls. Claiming any of those would be better than UT's claims in '40 and '67.

Your argument cuts both ways.
 
#143
#143
WiseOlVol said:
Well, you got two 5-star QBs who turned to be duds (Brantley Driskell), no WRs, didn't get any player who also got an Alabama offer, lost Algholor to SoCal...
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You're right man.

Being the most prominent state school in one of the highest talent producing states has not helped in the slightest
 
#145
#145
Is UT or Florida the 2nd Best SEC Program?

Historically I'd say UT. In the last 20 years Florida is barely #2 if not for Bama winning 3 out of the last 4 they'd be #1. We have a winning history and proud traditions that will return whether we're 2nd or 13th. Proud to wear the Orange and will always be. It's my team win or lose. So to me, we're number 1. :hi:
 
#146
#146
bamawriter said:
I know the justifications, and they are terrible.

And 1940 is also an awful claim. 1950 isn't great either, but it's on the line so I won't argue that one.

Bama doesn't claim 1945 when we went unbeaten and demolished USC in the Rose Bowl. We also don't claim 1966 when we were the only unbeaten and untied team in the country. We also don't claim 1977 when Notre Dame was inexplicably jumped over us in the final polls. Claiming any of those would be better than UT's claims in '40 and '67.

Your argument cuts both ways.
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I'm not arguing vs. Alabama's titles, although there are some arguments to be made vs. a couple of them. But I've argued for 47 years that Alabama was the 66 NC and the 77 NC. ND Euphoria pushed by the media.

Re 1940, how do you give Minn the NC when they only played 8 games? They claim 34, 35, 36, 40 and 41, yet they only played 8 games, when everybody else was playing 10. At the end of the regular season, UT was 10-0 with 8 shutouts.
 
#148
#148
WiseOlVol said:
Re 1940, how do you give Minn the NC when they only played 8 games? They claim 34, 35, 36, 40 and 41, yet they only played 8 games, when everybody else was playing 10. At the end of the regular season, UT was 10-0 with 8 shutouts.
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In 1940, 4 of Minnesota's 8 wins were over teams that finished in the year in the Top 10: #3 Michigan, #7 Nebraska, #8 Northwestern, and #10 Washington. And Ohio State was ranked when they played the Gophers. Only one of their opponents finished with a losing record.

In 1940, Tennessee did not defeat a single team that was ranked either when the Vols played them nor in the final poll. The Vols only defeated two teams that finished above .500.

Tennessee might have played 2 more games, but their schedule was still a complete joke compared to Minnesota's.
 
#149
#149
bamawriter said:
I don't think it's possible to come up with a dumber statement than this. There is no way you actually think this is true.
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UF's only QB in the 2013 class was a 3* from Nashville that Dooley passed on. The only QB in the 2012 class was a 3* from Philadelphia. The 2014 QB is from NC.
FL HS's #1 QB (2014) has committed to Penn State.
UF already has 2 4* decommits in the 2014 class.
The only FL HS 5*, RB Sony Michel (Plantation), has gone to UGA.

In Rivals Top 100 (2014):

TX 13
FL 10
GA 9
VA 7
CA 7
LA 7
AL 6
TN 5

Of the Top 15 in FL HS (2014): FSU has 3, Miami has 2, UGA has 1, Tennessee will get at least 1 (Bates), Michigan has 1 and UF has 1 (Dalvin Cook: he didn't get an offer from Alabama and right now is at USCw's summer camp).

Where's UF's "natural recruiting advantage" as of now?
 
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