Israel confronts flotilla

#251
#251
volinbham said:
Some questions for IP and anyone else totally against Israel on this one:

1. If this had not been international waters would you feel differently?

2. Do you believe IDF boarded with intent to kill anyone?

3. What could Israel do to stop a ship violating the blockade? What are the available options?
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1. 175 degrees differently (not totally 180, this really wasn't handled well, but the lion's share of things would shift to the activists in my mind)

2. No. Not at all. But they did board purposefully with the ability of lethal force in the form of their assault weapons. The sent soldiers, not inspectors with a mall cop.

3. Disable/destroy it when it refuses to stop in their waters. Geography is everything in this case to me.
 
#252
#252
IPorange said:
1. 175 degrees differently (not totally 180, this really wasn't handled well, but the lion's share of things would shift to the activists in my mind)

2. No. Not at all. But they did board purposefully with the ability of lethal force in the form of their assault weapons. The sent soldiers, not inspectors with a mall cop.

3. Disable/destroy it when it refuses to stop in their waters. Geography is everything in this case to me.
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Fair enough and I don't disagree. #3 though risks as much or more injury though.
 
#253
#253
Just to take Israel out of the mix:

If this were humanitarian protesters trying to get into N. Korea and the events went down exactly the same I would still lay some of the blame on the protesters and feel they were partially responsible for the outcome. I certainly wouldn't hail the protesters as heros even though they were trying to help N. Korean citizens.
 
#254
#254
volinbham said:
Some questions for IP and anyone else totally against Israel on this one:

1. If this had not been international waters would you feel differently?

2. Do you believe IDF boarded with intent to kill anyone?

3. What could Israel do to stop a ship violating the blockade? What are the available options?
Click to expand...

1. No

2. Yes

3. End the illegal blockade.
 
#257
#257
BoseefusTheVol said:
1. No

2. Yes

3. End the illegal blockade.
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Why do you believe this about number 2?

You feel it is responsible policy to allow free and unfettered access to weapons for terrorists organizations to use against innocent civilians?
 
#259
#259
BoseefusTheVol said:
Because they've broke international law before, nothing new.
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So have the Palestinians for that matter, What does that have to do with your beliefs that they intended to kill people? That answer didn't make any sense, please explain further.
 
#260
#260
Ya, I am kind of disappointed. I need more of a logical basis than that. You would think the IDF would have gone in guns blazing and killed them all if that is what they wanted to do. If it was just to scare them or make a statement, they'd have only dropped one or two. They certainly wouldn't have released a video of them getting owned by civies with brooms and steak knives.
 
#261
#261
KB5252 said:
Why do you believe this about number 2?

You feel it is responsible policy to allow free and unfettered access to weapons for terrorists organizations to use against innocent civilians?
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I believe the Palestinians have a God given right like the rest of us in this world to openly trade with other countries, travel, go abroad and study, build... just basic human rights... and they don't have it in Gaza.

Israel does not want that and would do anything in their power to prevent it... just like this whole incident proves.
 
#264
#264
This situation has been going on since 1948... It will go on and on and on until the United States puts it's foot down and tell both sides how it's gonna be...

Both sides have an extreme hatred to the other that there is no way in he!! they will solve this without the U.S.
 
#266
#266
BoseefusTheVol said:
I believe the Palestinians have a God given right like the rest of us in this world to openly trade with other countries, travel, go abroad and study, build... just basic human rights... and they don't have it in Gaza.

Israel does not want that and would do anything in their power to prevent it... just like this whole incident proves.
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free trade isn't a human right.
 
#267
#267
BoseefusTheVol said:
This situation has been going on since 1948... It will go on and on and on until the United States puts it's foot down and tell both sides how it's gonna be...

Both sides have an extreme hatred to the other that there is no way in he!! they will solve this without the U.S.
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Interesting that in one post you speak of god-given sovereignty and self-determination and in the next you advocate our country dictating to two other entities exactly how they should behave.
 
#268
#268
BoseefusTheVol said:
I believe the Palestinians have a God given right like the rest of us in this world to openly trade with other countries, travel, go abroad and study, build... just basic human rights... and they don't have it in Gaza.

Israel does not want that and would do anything in their power to prevent it... just like this whole incident proves.
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With freedom to choose comes responsibilities. Choose wrong and there are consequences. They chose a well known and ruthless terrorist organization to represent them. At the very least they allowed them to take control. When you allow groups that choose to kill children, men and women indiscriminately you've made your bed so you sleep in it.

Israel has tried at times to appease these terrorists many times and they get more blood for their trouble. Don't get me wrong Israel is not innocent and does deserve criticism in many cases but you can't negotiate with terrorists as their only objective is to kill in order to advance their agenda. They simply do not want peace and since they are in control of this area someone has to keep them in check. If the Palestinian people ever get rid of those holding them hostage (terrorist groups) life would become much easier for them.
 
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#269
#269
BoseefusTheVol said:
This situation has been going on since 1948... It will go on and on and on until the United States puts it's foot down and tell both sides how it's gonna be...

Both sides have an extreme hatred to the other that there is no way in he!! they will solve this without the U.S.
Click to expand...

Nothing will change until the Palestinian people reject terrorism. As far as one country telling another how things are going to be is simplistic and in no way grounded in reality. In order for there to be lasting peace both sides must want it to happen, Israel is closer to this end than the Palestinians are IMO for the simple reason they are united and the Palestinians are fractured and nowhere near as cohesive on the issue.
 
#271
#271
volinbham said:
pretty much what I thought.

If you believe the IDF intended to kill activists, why not do it with snipers or rockets or machine guns from helicopters?
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If they wanted that ship to go down you would have never seen any IDF soldier,rocket,torpedo,mine.........

It is a power play by both sides. Either had to show that they would and could carry their end out.
 
#272
#272
OrangeEmpire said:
If they wanted that ship to go down you would have never seen any IDF soldier,rocket,torpedo,mine.........

It is a power play by both sides. Either had to show that they would and could carry their end out.
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And neither party blinked.
 
#273
#273
We'll never know the true reason for the flotilla.......... the behind the scenes stuff always amazes me......... Too bad we won't know for another 15-20 years.
 
#274
#274
Some where on the intelligence chain, Israel thought they had good/reliable info to go on to raid the boat. Kinda makes you wonder who was sending the intel......
 
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