Israel confronts flotilla

[Daddy Gee]

I don't know if Obama has the courage of his convictions to intervene in a big way ... even if he did, by the time he made the decision to do something, it would be over ..

 

[KB5252]

I agree that a confrontation is inevitable, but I think that Israel has to have the full support of the US and I don't think they have it under this regime. There best hope is that Hussein is voted out in 2012.

Israel will act in it's own interest whether they have the full support of our president or not.

 

[volfanjustin]

Israel will act in it's own interest whether they have the full support of our president or not.

I think they have to have the full support of the US, I don't think they will act without it.

 

[KB5252]

I don't know if Obama has the courage of his convictions to intervene in a big way ... even if he did, by the time he made the decision to do something, it would be over ..

If Israel or Iran strikes it will start a conflict that will escalate. Iran will be supplied weapons from the usual suspects and we will play a part as well. We may not put boots on the ground but we will certainly be involved.

 

[jaybird_1981]

I think they have to have the full support of the US, I don't think they will act without it.

No I disagree, Israel will do what they deem necessary.

 

[KB5252]

I think they have to have the full support of the US, I don't think they will act without it.

They have shown time and again they want to cooperate with us when possible but they will act without full support from us.

 

[volfanjustin]

No I disagree, Israel will do what they deem necessary.

I hope you and KB are correct.

 

[gsvol]

Israel will hit back and I don't believe it will be pretty either.

A Lutherian priest in nazi Germany called the Jewish people the 'canary in the mine.'

If they don't survive then heaven help the rest of humanity.

Mugged by reality: What the U.S. got for $12.5 billion in post-WWII aid to Turkey

As with more than one contemporary administration around the world [perhaps including the U.S.], it is hard to judge how much Turkish Prime Minister RecepTayyip Erdogan’s policies are Michaevelleian and how much amateur hour. But clearly a half century of top-down Kemalist secularism is fading rapidly under attack from a new Anatolian, conservative Muslim middle class — ironically in no small part created by huge post-World War II American aid. As an anti-Soviet ally, Washington pumped more than $12.5 billion in economic and $14 billion in military aid [in unadjusted dollars] into Turkey. This does not include vast sums spent on and from U.S. bases and training programs. In riposte, Turkey, of course, blocked US/NATO base transit during the Iraq invasion.

Although Ankara now runs a bilateral trade deficit because of energy dependence on Moscow, Turkish companies are investing heavily in Russia. In return Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has promised to build Turkey’s first nuclear power plant — ominous given Moscow’s collaboration in helping to lay the groundwork for Iran’s nuclear weapons program.

Gateway Pundit

The imam behind a proposed mosque near Ground Zero is a prominent member of a group that helped sponsor the pro-Palestinian activists who clashed violently with Israeli commandos at sea this week.

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf is a key figure in Malaysian-based Perdana Global Peace Organization, according to its Website.

Perdana is the single biggest donor ($366,000) so far to the Free Gaza Movement, a key organizer of the six-ship flotilla that tried to break Israel’s blockade of the Hamas-run Gaza Strip Monday.

IMRA - Monday, June 7, 2010 ORGANIZERS OF GAZA FLOTILLA HAVE VIOLATED US NEUTRALITY ACT

Israel Law Center has written a letter to the American Attorney General, Eric Holder, asking him to investigate whether the U.S. Neutrality Act (18 USC § 960) was violated by Left-wing organizations that funded the Gaza flotilla.

The letter also asks for an investigation of whether the Free Gaza Movement (FGM) which organized the illegal boat expedition was involved in money laundering an efforts to defraud the Internal Revenue Service.

Middle East: 'Freedom' flotilla to leave for Gaza in September - Adnkronos Culture And Media

Rome, 8 June (AKI) - Twenty ships with more than 5,000 activists on board will leave for Gaza in September in a bid to deliver aid and break the three-year-old Israeli blockade, according to Mohammad Hannoun, president of the Italian Association of Palestinians in Italy.

"Freedom Flotilla II will leave around September," he said during a panel discussion at the Turkish Embassy in Rome.
------------------------------------

Israel in 2007 imposed a blockade on Gaza after militant Hamas took control. Hamas routinely shoots missiles into Israel and its settlements. Israel says it needs to seal the area to keep arms from entering.
--------------------------------------------

Hannoun said the Palestinian Solidarity Festival, to be held on Sunday in the northern Italian city of Milan, will raise funds for the flotilla.

Meanwhile we need to mind our own business here at home.

Islamic Law in Oklahoma? Vote to Bar Sharia May Be on Fall Ballot

"This is just the flip side of the anti-Semitic coin," said Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations. Anti-Islam rhetoric is approaching "Nazi-like" levels, Hooper said.

CAIR is the American version of Hamas and their spokesman in this country.

Hooper has a hell of a lot of nerve and what he says is an outright insult anyone's intelligence.

Hamas came from and fought with and for the Nazis just a little over a half century ago and have not changed or moderated on bit from their position then, if anything they have gotten worse.

 

[rjd970]

It is so frustrating how you and some others here have to go back hundreds of years to put out how Christians used to be. I can go back to yeaterday to show examples of how Islam is killing in the name of their "religion".

Christians today, do not kill or support the killing of people, especially in the name of Christianity. Muslims do kill and do support killing in the name of Islam, convert or be killed.

You know what is equally frustrating? You can't read and comprehend the point that is plainly obvious. The substance of the post was that whether you want to admit it or not, those Christians 600 years ago were doing absurd things in while quoting scripture, believing John 14:6 to its very core. I'm sure you or gsvol don't consider what they did Christian...maybe you don't even consider them Christian (which would be laughable). However, you guys fail to realize that maybe all Muslims don't consider suicide bombers true Muslims, only perversions of faith. If you are going to lump all Muslims in the same bucket, it is just as fair for anyone to do the same to Christians.

If a Christian wanted to go out a kill people in the name of Christianity he could find all the justification he wanted in the Bible. A Muslim could find even more in the Qu'ran. It is simply a matter of taking those those absurd and fantastic beliefs and choosing which ones you want to accept, and which ones you don't.

You both also fail to accept the fact that even benign beliefs can be very problematic. How many people have died in the developing world because the Christian prudishness with regards to sex has driven Christian missionaries to preach the sinfulness of condom use in areas ravaged by AIDS? This is a "benign" dogmatism that is genuinely lethal, and it isn't being charged with happening 600 years ago. Preventing funds for family planning, anxiety about killing blastocysts...etc. These are completely stupid beliefs that do nothing more than kill, victimize innocent people, and falsifies the moral authority your belief system touts.

I don't expect you to understand or even accept that, but it is the reality of the position you are defending.

 

[gsvol]

You know what is equally frustrating? You can't read and comprehend the point that is plainly obvious. The substance of the post was that whether you want to admit it or not, those Christians 600 years ago were doing absurd things in while quoting scripture, believing John 14:6 to its very core. I'm sure you or gsvol don't consider what they did Christian...maybe you don't even consider them Christian (which would be laughable). However, you guys fail to realize that maybe all Muslims don't consider suicide bombers true Muslims, only perversions of faith. If you are going to lump all Muslims in the same bucket, it is just as fair for anyone to do the same to Christians.

If a Christian wanted to go out a kill people in the name of Christianity he could find all the justification he wanted in the Bible. A Muslim could find even more in the Qu'ran. It is simply a matter of taking those those absurd and fantastic beliefs and choosing which ones you want to accept, and which ones you don't.

You both also fail to accept the fact that even benign beliefs can be very problematic. How many people have died in the developing world because the Christian prudishness with regards to sex has driven Christian missionaries to preach the sinfulness of condom use in areas ravaged by AIDS? This is a "benign" dogmatism that is genuinely lethal, and it isn't being charged with happening 600 years ago. Preventing funds for family planning, anxiety about killing blastocysts...etc. These are completely stupid beliefs that do nothing more than kill, victimize innocent people, and falsifies the moral authority your belief system touts.

I don't expect you to understand or even accept that, but it is the reality of the position you are defending.

So you are extrapolating that six hundred years from now islam may become benign and benevelent??

It is a given that not all muslims extoll the most violent path to gain their goals but even the most docile of muslims does seek the same goals, ask one.

As for benign beliefs becoming problematic, the secular humanistic socialist adherents of the twentieth century have the most horrid history, I definately agree with you on that idea.

As for condum use in areas ravaged by aids?? They use those condoms to carry water. Don't try to blame that on the Christians. Instead try to convince the present president of South Africa that raping a preteen girl will not cure aids.

I don't expect you to understand spit either.

What Justin is saying is that we have to deal with the realities of today, not somethng that happened six hundred years ago or six hundred years from now.

From my point of view we would all be better off if you had been terminated when you were a blastocyst yourself, so would you.

 

[BoseefusTheVol]

A Lutherian priest in nazi Germany called the Jewish people the 'canary in the mine.'

If they don't survive then heaven help the rest of humanity.

Mugged by reality: What the U.S. got for $12.5 billion in post-WWII aid to Turkey



Gateway Pundit



IMRA - Monday, June 7, 2010 ORGANIZERS OF GAZA FLOTILLA HAVE VIOLATED US NEUTRALITY ACT



Middle East: 'Freedom' flotilla to leave for Gaza in September - Adnkronos Culture And Media




Meanwhile we need to mind our own business here at home.

Islamic Law in Oklahoma? Vote to Bar Sharia May Be on Fall Ballot



CAIR is the American version of Hamas and their spokesman in this country.

Hooper has a hell of a lot of nerve and what he says is an outright insult anyone's intelligence.

Hamas came from and fought with and for the Nazis just a little over a half century ago and have not changed or moderated on bit from their position then, if anything they have gotten worse.

So Hamas have a time machine that they used to fight with the Nazis? Because they were founded in 1987. Brilliant gs!! Hmmm, interesting.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[gsvol]

So Hamas have a time machine that they used to fight with the Nazis? Because they were founded in 1987. Brilliant gs!! Hmmm, interesting.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Pardon me I had forgotten that there were people such as you who were so ignorant and stupid.

Hamas was established by the Muslim Brotherhood dumbass.

HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement)

FrontPage Magazine - The Muslim Brotherhood, Nazis and Al-Qaeda

You would take studied stupitity to almost an art form, except for one thing, you have no talent.

 

[BoseefusTheVol]

Pardon me I had forgotten that there were people such as you who were so ignorant and stupid.

Hamas was established by the Muslim Brotherhood dumbass.

HAMAS (Islamic Resistance Movement)

FrontPage Magazine - The Muslim Brotherhood, Nazis and Al-Qaeda

You would take studied stupitity to almost an art form, except for one thing, you have no talent.

Lol... Maybe I'm dumb and I can't figure out how 1987 came before WWII...

Lol fool...
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[gsvol]

Lol... Maybe I'm dumb and I can't figure out how 1987 came before WWII...

Lol fool...
Posted via VolNation Mobile

You are too dumb to understand the Muslim Brotherhood founded Hamas that's pretty damned dumb.

Most of the people who went through WWII are now dead but the same ideas have been indoctrinated into generations since then and they still adhere to the same goals, I guess you think Hamas is some sort of civic group??

If planet Earth only had one unmitigated fool, odds are that it would by you.

 

[BoseefusTheVol]

You are too dumb to understand the Muslim Brotherhood founded Hamas that's pretty damned dumb.

Most of the people who went through WWII are now dead but the same ideas have been indoctrinated into generations since then and they still adhere to the same goals, I guess you think Hamas is some sort of civic group??

If planet Earth only had one unmitigated fool, odds are that it would by you.

Once again gs... Hamas was established in 1987 during the first intifada...

1987 is after WWII...

You said Hamas fought in wwII...

You ooze ignorance... In an entertaining way.

Thanks for the laughs.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[gsvol]

Once again gs... Hamas was established in 1987 during the first intifada...

1987 is after WWII...

You said Hamas fought in wwII...

You ooze ignorance... In an entertaining way.

Thanks for the laughs.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Here is what I said:

Hamas came from and fought with and for the Nazis just a little over a half century ago and have not changed or moderated on bit from their position then, if anything they have gotten worse.

Hamas is nothing more than a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood under a different name.

Spent a lot of your life on the short bus did ye laddy boy??

 

[BoseefusTheVol]

Here is what I said:



Hamas is nothing more than a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood under a different name.

Spent a lot of your life on the short bus did ye laddy boy??

:crazy:

1987 is when they were established.

:crazy:

1987 is a FACT, not an opinion.

:crazy:

I don't care about your crack head opinions... in fact, I enjoy them...

But please get your facts straight.

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

 

[gsvol]

:crazy:

1987 is when they were established.

:crazy:

1987 is a FACT, not an opinion.

:crazy:

I don't care about your crack head opinions... in fact, I enjoy them...

But please get your facts straight.

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

They were established prior to that as the Muslim Brotherhood, only the name was changed to protect the guilty.

I don't know why that fact is soooo hard for you to grasp.

Did you ever buy any ESSO gasoline??

When ESSO merged with other oil companies, they were all given the name EXXON. So if you trade with EXXON then essentially you are dealing with ESSO and those other oil companies.

Likewise when you speak of Hamas you are talking about a Muslim Brotherhood front group, that is why when referring to Hamas, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, the Muslim Brotherhood and numerous other militant muslim groups, you are talking about islamo/fascists who were all in league with Adolph Hitler a little over a half century ago.

Mousolinni wanted in on the action so he assumed the title, with the blessing of islamic leaders of; "Protector of Islam."

 

[BoseefusTheVol]

They were established prior to that as the Muslim Brotherhood, only the name was changed to protect the guilty.

I don't know why that fact is soooo hard for you to grasp.

Did you ever buy any ESSO gasoline??

When ESSO merged with other oil companies, they were all given the name EXXON. So if you trade with EXXON then essentially you are dealing with ESSO and those other oil companies.

Likewise when you speak of Hamas you are talking about a Muslim Brotherhood front group, that is why when referring to Hamas, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, the Muslim Brotherhood and numerous other militant muslim groups, you are talking about islamo/fascists who were all in league with Adolph Hitler a little over a half century ago.

Mousolinni wanted in on the action so he assumed the title, with the blessing of islamic leaders of; "Protector of Islam."

:crazy:

Sweet Jesus!!! Are you senile?! Now al-Qaeda and Hizbollah were in league with Adolph friggin' Hitler??!

Esso?? Exxon?? Are you for real?

Say some more funny things...

 

[BigPapaVol]

:crazy:

Sweet Jesus!!! Are you senile?! Now al-Qaeda and Hizbollah were in league with Adolph friggin' Hitler??!

Esso?? Exxon?? Are you for real?

Say some more funny things...

are you saying there was no precursor to Hezbollah?

 

[tim]

GS, can we link Hamas to the first Barbary War?

 

[gsvol]

GS, can we link Hamas to the first Barbary War?

Be my guest.In the 1920's there was a young Egyptian named al Bana. And al Bana formed this nationalist group called the Muslim Brotherhood. Al Bana was a devout admirer of Adolph Hitler and wrote to him frequently. So persistent was he in his admiration of the new Nazi Party that in the 1930's, al-Bana and the Muslim Brotherhood became a secret arm of Nazi intelligence.

When WWII broke out, the Muslim Brotherhood promised in writing that they would rise up and help General Rommell and make sure that no English or American soldier was left alive in Cairo or Alexandria.

The Muslim Brotherhood began to expand in scope and influence during World War II. They even had a Palestinian section headed by the grand Mufti of Jerusalem, one of the great bigots of all time. The grand Mufti of Jerusalem was the Muslim Brotherhood representative for Palestine.

The Grand Mufti, for example, went to Germany during the war and helped recruit an international SS division of Arab Nazis. They based it in Croatia and Bosnia and called it the “Handjar” Muslim Division, but it was to become the core of Hitler's new army of Arab fascists.

Post WWII, Egyptian president Nasser ordered all of the Muslim Brotherhood out of Egypt or be imprisoned, and he would execute them all......... The Nazis of the Muslim Brotherhood moved to Saudi Arabia.

Now when they arrived in Saudi Arabia, some of the leading lights of the Muslim Brotherhood like Azzam, became the teachers in the Madrasas, the religious schools. And there they combined the doctrines of Nazism with the prevelent Arabian Islamic cult, Wahhabiism.

The next president of Egypt, Sadat, concluded a peace treaty with Israel but then was soon assassinated by agents the Muslim Brotherhood.

For the Saudis, there was a ruler in charge of Saudi Arabia, and they were the new home of the Muslim Brotherhood, and fascism and extremism were mingled in these schools. And there was a young student who paid attention - - Azzam's student was named Osama Bin Ladin. Osama Bin Ladin was taught by the Nazis of the Muslim Brotherhood who had emigrated to Saudi Arabia.

Osama Bin Ladin's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, came from the Egyptian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, the results of a Palestinian Islamic Jihad. (renamed Hamas later.)

As for the so-called Barbary pirates:

Quotes from the Founding Fathers

Terrorism and the New American Republic

In 1786, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson met with Arab diplomats from Tunis, who were conducting terror raids and piracy against American ships.

History records them as the Barbary Pirates. In fact, they were blackmailing terrorists, hiding behind a self-serving interpretation of their Islamic faith by embracing select tracts and ignoring others. Borrowing from the Christian Crusades of centuries past, they used history as a mandate for doing the western world one better. The quisling European powers had been buying them off for years.

On March 28, 1786 Jefferson and Adams detailed what they saw as the main issue:

“We took the liberty to make some inquiries concerning the Grounds of their pretensions to make war upon a Nation who had done them no Injury, and observed that we considered all mankind as our Friends who had done us no wrong, nor had given us any provocation. The Ambassador answered us that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman who should be slain in Battle was sure to go to Paradise.”

Thomas Jefferson wanted a military solution, but decades of blackmailing the American Republic and enslaving its citizens would continue until the new American nation realized that the only answer to terrorism was force.

"There's a temptation to view all of our problems as unprecedented and all of our threats as new and novel," says George Washington University law professor Jonathan Turley. Shortly after the terror attacks of Sept. 11, Turley advised some members of Congress who were considering a formal declaration of war against the suspected perpetrators. He invoked the precedent of the Barbary pirates, saying America had every right to attack and destroy the terrorist leadership without declaring war.

"Congress did not actually declare war on the pirates," Turley wrote in a memo, "but 'authorized' the use of force against the regencies after our bribes and ransoms were having no effect. This may have been due to an appreciation that a declaration of war on such petty tyrants would have elevated their status. Accordingly, they were treated as pirates and, after a disgraceful period of accommodation, we hunted them down as pirates."

Because of their outlaw conduct, pirates -- and modern-day terrorists -- put themselves outside protection of the law, according to military strategy expert Dave McIntyre, a former dean at the National War College. "On the high seas if you saw a pirate, you sank the bastard," he says. "You assault pirates, you don't arrest pirates."

Shoot first, ask questions later. Wanted: Dead or alive. Such is our official policy regarding Osama bin Laden, the most infamous outlaw of the era.

One of the enduring lessons of the Barbary campaigns was to never give in to outlaws, whether you call them pirates or terrorists. In the late 1700s, America paid significant blackmail for peace -- shelling out $990,000 to the Algerians alone at a time when national revenues totaled just $7 million.

"Too many concessions have been made to Algiers," U.S. consul William Eaton wrote to the Secretary of State in 1799. "There is but one language which can be held to these people, and this is terror."

 

[gsvol]

:crazy:

Sweet Jesus!!! Are you senile?! Now al-Qaeda and Hizbollah were in league with Adolph friggin' Hitler??!

Esso?? Exxon?? Are you for real?

Say some more funny things...

Great minds discuss ideas,
average minds discuss events,
small minds discuss people.

At least you're giving someone a break while you continue to talk about me.

What else don't you understand about islamo/fascism?

 

[rjd970]

So you are extrapolating that six hundred years from now islam may become benign and benevelent??

1. It is a given that not all muslims extoll the most violent path to gain their goals but even the most docile of muslims does seek the same goals, ask one.

2. As for benign beliefs becoming problematic, the secular humanistic socialist adherents of the twentieth century have the most horrid history, I definately agree with you on that idea.

3. As for condum use in areas ravaged by aids?? They use those condoms to carry water. Don't try to blame that on the Christians. Instead try to convince the present president of South Africa that raping a preteen girl will not cure aids.

I don't expect you to understand spit either.

4. What Justin is saying is that we have to deal with the realities of today, not somethng that happened six hundred years ago or six hundred years from now.

5. From my point of view we would all be better off if you had been terminated when you were a blastocyst yourself, so would you.

1. To what goals are you referring? Again, you fail to look in the mirror. What does the Bible say about heretics? Would you think the world is better off if everybody were converted to Christianity? Do you think Islam is little more than a perversion of Abrahemic traditions? Pray tell. The only difference here is Islam preaches domination by the sword, of which you admitted in the bolded text doesn't apply to all muslims.

2. I'm assuming you are referring to the Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, etc.. canard with this. The only problem here is they did not do what they did because of secular human beliefs. They committed their crimes based upon dogmatic social, political, and racial ideaologies. Look throughout the course of history and observe people...the pious, the atheists, the socialists, etc... behaving in such bad way. You will find that always...ALWAYS...the reasoning behind those actions are preposterous, and not in the least bit rational.

3. This is just silly. The ethical fallout resulting from centuries of Christian anxiety about sex has been nothing but harmful in every sense of the word. And this continues today. It is probably safe to say that somebody is currently suffering from AIDS because they were afraid of what awaited them in the next life if they used proper family planning. Christian theology (in fact, all theology) that declare the imaginary crimes of homosexuality and pre-marital sex legitimate moral issues completely ignore that these actions hurt no one where both parties are consenting. It's long past due to realize the fact that victimless crimes are not crimes at all. Anyone who preaches these absurd virtues from the pulpit has some pretty unjustifiable beliefs about the nature of right and wrong. And the most damaging part about it is they don't even realize this.

4. And what I am saying is the underlying thought process is no different today than it was 600 years ago. Western civilization has just come to some important ethical conclusions that the majority of the Muslim world hasn't. This certainly says nothing about the efficacy Christianity itself.

5. LOL.

 

[gsvol]

1. To what goals are you referring? Again, you fail to look in the mirror. What does the Bible say about heretics? Would you think the world is better off if everybody were converted to Christianity? Do you think Islam is little more than a perversion of Abrahemic traditions? Pray tell. The only difference here is Islam preaches domination by the sword, of which you admitted in the bolded text doesn't apply to all muslims.

2. I'm assuming you are referring to the Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, etc.. canard with this. The only problem here is they did not do what they did because of secular human beliefs. They committed their crimes based upon dogmatic social, political, and racial ideaologies. Look throughout the course of history and observe people...the pious, the atheists, the socialists, etc... behaving in such bad way. You will find that always...ALWAYS...the reasoning behind those actions are preposterous, and not in the least bit rational.

3. This is just silly. The ethical fallout resulting from centuries of Christian anxiety about sex has been nothing but harmful in every sense of the word. And this continues today. It is probably safe to say that somebody is currently suffering from AIDS because they were afraid of what awaited them in the next life if they used proper family planning. Christian theology (in fact, all theology) that declare the imaginary crimes of homosexuality and pre-marital sex legitimate moral issues completely ignore that these actions hurt no one where both parties are consenting. It's long past due to realize the fact that victimless crimes are not crimes at all. Anyone who preaches these absurd virtues from the pulpit has some pretty unjustifiable beliefs about the nature of right and wrong. And the most damaging part about it is they don't even realize this.

4. And what I am saying is the underlying thought process is no different today than it was 600 years ago. Western civilization has just come to some important ethical conclusions that the majority of the Muslim world hasn't. This certainly says nothing about the efficacy Christianity itself.

5. LOL.

1. Implemention of sharia law.

My Bible doesn't say anything about heretics that I know of, I usually try to stick as close as I can to the Gospel, trying to understand the words of Jesus.

Yes.

That at best, at worst a pagan moon cult (see rules for starting Ramadan) that borrowed from Judaism and Christianity to gain some sort of ligitimacy by it's madman founder who was particularly viscious, cruel, greedy, lustful and deceiptful, unlike the founder of any other religion on Earth. BTW, the muhamedans most holy site, the Kaaba once housed 365 idols.

2. I tend to agree with that, except they used the religion of secular humanism to achieve their power positions.

3. Whatever. You sound like a Hitlery Clinton clone.

4. Totally absurd. You always sidestep the point and the reasons for having these discussions in the first place because of your anti-Christian bias.

Can you not see at all what is happening in Europe concerning native populations dealing with muslims who have immigrated to practice the islamic way of infiltrating to conquer as dictated by muhammed himself??

You do realize that in this country now we have probably over forty islamic training sites for who knows what all goes on and many try to recruit the most violent of criminals converted in prisons and then too we have over 1,400 mosques in this country and 80% of those have Saudi funded imans who teach the worst form of nazi/wahibbist doctrines??

We even have publicly funded schools that attempt to indocrinate non muslim children.

What good do you expect to see come from allthat??

5. Glad you think that's funny, it is.