Israel confronts flotilla

#176
#176
IPorange said:
If it were solely about political systems, then why are we not closer to the oldest democracy in the muslim world?

Yes, again for the millionth time I am referring to Turkey.
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You don't think we haven't tried............. call Turkey and ask them.....

:hi:
 
#179
#179
IPorange said:
How did you arrive at that? I'm saying we shouldn't get married to one particular country over there because they let their women wear bikinis and drive a car.
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another example of oversimplifying.
 
#180
#180
IPorange said:
If it were solely about political systems, then why are we not closer to the oldest democracy in the muslim world?

Yes, again for the millionth time I am referring to Turkey.
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It's' about political systems and the world view of the country. We are close to Turkey (relative to other Muslim countries) but Israel has a more similar world view to ours. We agree on more - hence closer allies. We've backed each other more - hence a stronger set of ties.

You will see us be very careful here because even though we may not agree on this issue, we let one incident trash the long-term relationship.
 
#182
#182
volinbham said:
I seriously doubt the IDF had any plans to kill anyone. A melee occurred and people died.

I would say the world should be ticked at the flotilla as well.
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It was a melee with one side having only melee weapons, the other with guns. Witness reports say the IDF were quite rough from the word "go," and that things escalated when the passengers began defending themselves.
 
#183
#183
volinbham said:
heros? you've got to be kidding me.
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I kid you not... I think they are principled people that are challenging an inhumane and illegal blockade and collective punishment of the entire people of Gaza.

Not in their wildest dreams do I think that they thought some of them will die.
 
#184
#184
volinbham said:
It's' about political systems and the world view of the country. We are close to Turkey (relative to other Muslim countries) but Israel has a more similar world view to ours. We agree on more - hence closer allies. We've backed each other more - hence a stronger set of ties.

You will see us be very careful here because even though we may not agree on this issue, we let one incident trash the long-term relationship.
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+1

:hi:
 
#186
#186
BoseefusTheVol said:
I kid you not... I think they are principled people that are challenging an inhumane and illegal blockade and collective punishment of the entire people of Gaza.

Not in their wildest dreams do I think that they thought some of them will die.
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:lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove::lolabove:

Clown-Master.jpg
 
#187
#187
IPorange said:
I wouldn't call them heroes, just activists. Like most activists, their intentions are not pure, but rather barbed. Doesn't change the events, though.
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You jump on folks for blanket support of Israel but can't get beyond blanket condemnation of Israel.
 
#192
#192
BoseefusTheVol said:
I kid you not... I think they are principled people that are challenging an inhumane and illegal blockade and collective punishment of the entire people of Gaza.

Not in their wildest dreams do I think that they thought some of them will die.
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Let me get this straight. You fire at armed IDF soldiers and are shocked that they fired back and people died? Surely you jest.
 
#193
#193
BoseefusTheVol said:
I kid you not... I think they are principled people that are challenging an inhumane and illegal blockade and collective punishment of the entire people of Gaza.

Not in their wildest dreams do I think that they thought some of them will die.
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Inhumane? open to debate. Illegal? International law doesn't see it that way.

Ends justify the means? They intentionally planned to confront Israel forces. When boarded they attacked (it appears).

I'm all for people supporting causes but it doesn't free one from consequences of confrontation.

It certainly doesn't confer hero-status if the confrontation you provoke turns ugly and you end up injured or dead.
 
#194
#194
lumberjack4 said:
Clearly you have not read the international law which gave Israel clear authority to board the vessel.
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Clearly you don't realize that the ship was boarded outside of the actual claimed blockade area, and in international waters, thus making it against that international law you linked.
 
#196
#196
lumberjack4 said:
Let me get this straight. You fire at armed IDF soldiers and are shocked that they fired back and people died? Surely you jest.
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What were the activists firing? Spit balls? They didn't have any firearms or weapons aside from kitchen knives on the ship. At all.
 
#197
#197
IPorange said:
Again, relative to "Israel is good, cuz they're just like us" it's mapping the human genome.
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you can't have it both ways - you have blanket condemnation of Israel for this event then blast people for blanket support of Israel on this event then you say it's complicated.

This incident is complicated as well.
 
#198
#198
IPorange said:
Things rarely are all one party's fault. But they made the bad move and got caught holding the bag. And by "bag" I mean "body bag." Those folks on the ships, no matter their motivations, didn't kill anybody. Israel did.

I am not calling for any kind of aggression against Israel over this, but the world has a reason to be ticked.
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I wonder how many more blows from the pipes and what not it would have taken? If the IDF had not defended their men there probably would have been deaths on their side. The blockade smashers went in with the mentality "by any means necessary", it was pretty obvious to anyone watching the video.
 
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#199
#199
IPorange said:
What were the activists firing? Spit balls? They didn't have any firearms or weapons of any sort on the ship. At all.
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So you are protesting, cops show up. They warn you to stop. They provide an alternative for you. You refuse and they enter the area. You start hitting them with whatever you can find. There are 10 of you to each cop. You throw one off a building. Then you wonder why they fire shots?
 
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