Israel vs Palestinians

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#20,327
NashVol11 said:
We’re talking about Palestinians. If you’re pretending you know the “people who live there” through knowing Israeli citizens that are at odds with Palestinians, then if anything you’re even less informed about what Palestinians are thinking, not more as you’re pretending
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I’ve been to Israel. I know former “Palestinians “ who are now Israeli citizens. I have Family and friends that are Israeli citizens. By your new your definition I know a lot more about the way people are thinking over there than you.

But again, the question wasn’t about me.
Please tell me about your experience there and what the people there told you
 
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#20,332
#20,332
Franklin Pierce said:

USAID gave nearly $1M to Gaza charity tied to Hamas, up to six days before Oct. 7 attack on Israel​


View attachment 633337
Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh is associated with a Gaza charity that raked in nearly $1 million from the US federal government.

A Gaza-based nonprofit tied to the son of a Hamas leader received nearly $1 million in aid from the US government — with one grant arriving less than a week before the Oct. 7 terrorist strikes on Israel, according to a report.

Bayader for Environment and Development Association has secured $900,000 from the US Agency for International Development (USAID) over seven years.

The most recent grant, for $15,219, was paid out on Oct,.1, 2023, six days before the Hamas attacks on Israel which left 1,200 Israelis dead.

Bayader, which works to help children and rehabilitate polluted areas in Gaza, according to its website, is associated with Abdul Salam Haniyeh — a son of Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, who organized the terror attack on Israel, according to a report last week from Middle East Forum, a Philadelphia-based think tank.

nypost.com

Exclusive | USAID gave nearly $1M to Gaza charity tied to Hamas, up to six days before Oct. 7 attack on Israel

A charity tied to Hamas has received nearly $1 million from US Aid over the past seven years, with a grant arriving just days before Oct. 7 terrorist strike on Israel.
nypost.com nypost.com
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That is nothing. Our idiot National Security Advisor (Jake Sullivan) said the Middle East was the quietest it has been in two decades just eight days before the surprise attack by Hamas against Israel. Our foreign policy with this corrupt administration is reactionary at best.
 
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#20,333
85SugarVol said:
Except we don’t see results in Palestinian polling like you’re alluding to in North Korea.

Support for Hamas consistently registers in the 60%-80% range.

Who are these 1/3 to 1/4 of Palestinians not showing fealty?
How do they keep popping up in these polls?
How are they not dead yet?
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what do you mean by we don't see the same results In Palestine? Just because it doesn't match the near 100% its a completely different situation for you? again with you guys being absolutists to avoid taking a real critical look at things.

fine, if you want to be obtuse, how about Putin's recent victory in the 80s? thats more in line with the Palestinian results.

they keep showing up because the lack of support is there. Hamas doesn't have the stranglehold on Palestine as exists in NK. I would also argue they lack the general resources and structure to manufacture near 100% results.

One of the previous break downs showed that a lot of the dissenting votes against Hamas still supported other extremist groups.

maybe that percentage has a little more freedom because of Israel or some other group.

bias selection, I seriously doubt any of these polls got answers from every single Palestinian. and that could push those numbers either way, up or down.

They may not be dead yet because they hadn't had a chance to vote yet. they get their one dissent vote, and then they are removed. 19.6 isn't much higher than the voting age. not that this is a real election.

there are plenty of way to explain how it could happen. there is probably no one single answer and its a mix of things, and probably more than listed above. heck stupidity and human error are part of every poll too. maybe some have figured out how to effectively lie to Hamas about it.

you clinging to absolutist arguments only highlights your bias.
 
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#20,334
whodeycin85 said:


Hamas and Palestinians are 1 in the same
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according to Hamas....the one group who would directly benefit from that being true.

I swear you guys will buy whatever bs anyone, including the terrorists, throw out there as long as it fits your preconceived notions. no questions, no rational thought.
 
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#20,335
#20,335
Orangeslice13 said:
Unfortunately they are at war. If there was any decent I’d see it. It’s not there. I’ve looked.
Lazy and dishonest is assuming someone it’s looking around because they don’t agree with you
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you've looked? At what?

Are there hundreds of thousands/millions of Palestinians actively fighting Israel at this moment? plenty of people are showing with their actions they aren't completely in line with what Hamas is doing.

many have tried following Israel's orders to evacuate and get out of the way. what about them? What happens when those people trying to do what Israel tells them are killed? several times by Israel. that isn't encouraging those who aren't Hamas to follow outside instructions, which will make you just lump them in with the terrorists. you are claiming anyone who isn't 100% aligned with Israel are terrorists, its crap.
 
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Orangeslice13 said:
Holy ****.
Pick a spot and put down your goalposts.

We have elections. We vote. If someone tries to change that the shooting would start.
They don’t have elections because they accept it. Maybe they should speak up and speak out about their leadership that brought hell to their lives
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my goal posts have remained the same. I don't think elections have anything to do with responsibility. not for them, not for us. i am just using your argument and applying it to you. you are uncomfortable with it because it highlights your hypocrisy.

you are the one claiming they HAVE responsibility, while for some reason you don't. and its because of some magical button you press every 2/4/6 years? That's incredibly lazy.
 
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Vol8188 said:
What if that 100% is 75% behind and responsible for Hamas? Would that change your opinions on anything
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for me personally no. largely because I have never believed in guilt by association that is prevalent here.

Hamas is 100% responsible for Hamas's actions. Israel is 100% responsible for Israel's action. Hamas is 0% responsible for Israel's actions, and Israel is 0% responsible for Hamas' actions.

the individuals are 100% responsible for their own actions. if they actively took part in some Hamas raid they are responsible for that and could/should be killed/face the consequences.
if they are nothing more than in the wrong place at the wrong time, then no they are not responsible and shouldn't be actively targeted.

are some of the innocents going to die? yes. its a reality of war.

it being a reality of war doesn't absolve Israel or Hamas of killing innocents. only difference with me is I don't choose to absolve one side because I agree with them. and that makes people uncomfortable that "their side" may not be 100% good guys. and pointing out that simple truth is apparently enough to get me lumped in with the terrorists.
 
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#20,338
LouderVol said:
for me personally no. largely because I have never believed in guilt by association that is prevalent here.

Hamas is 100% responsible for Hamas's actions. Israel is 100% responsible for Israel's action. Hamas is 0% responsible for Israel's actions, and Israel is 0% responsible for Hamas' actions.

the individuals are 100% responsible for their own actions. if they actively took part in some Hamas raid they are responsible for that and could/should be killed/face the consequences.
if they are nothing more than in the wrong place at the wrong time, then no they are not responsible and shouldn't be actively targeted.

are some of the innocents going to die? yes. its a reality of war.

it being a reality of war doesn't absolve Israel or Hamas of killing innocents. only difference with me is I don't choose to absolve one side because I agree with them. and that makes people uncomfortable that "their side" may not be 100% good guys. and pointing out that simple truth is apparently enough to get me lumped in with the terrorists.
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What is the "some Hamas raid" that you are referring to? Surely it is not the 10/7 attack that included rocket attacks, paragliders, and killed over 1,000 civilians and foreign nationals. If so, you are sounding like Illian Omar in how she referred to the 9/11 attacks.
 
#20,339
#20,339
Orangeslice13 said:
I’ve been to Israel. I know former “Palestinians “ who are now Israeli citizens. I have Family and friends that are Israeli citizens. By your new your definition I know a lot more about the way people are thinking over there than you.

But again, the question wasn’t about me.
Please tell me about your experience there and what the people there told you
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So you know Israelis, the side bombing the hell out of Gaza, but don’t know any Gazans at all. Thanks for proving my exact point lol
 
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#20,345
#20,345
CobbVol said:
What is the "some Hamas raid" that you are referring to? Surely it is not the 10/7 attack that included rocket attacks, paragliders, and killed over 1,000 civilians and foreign nationals. If so, you are sounding like Illian Omar in how she referred to the 9/11 attacks.
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My understanding is that Hamas has continued to launch attacks into Israel after 10/7. and Israel has been blowing them up where possible. where as 10/7 was a sucker punch Israel largely wasn't able to counter day of. Hamas/Palestine claims these Israeli responses only kill civilians. My opinion is if the "civilian" is there of their own free will and knowingly participating in said attack/raid/missile launch, they aren't a "civilian" even if they aren't Hamas.

conversely Israel has claimed pretty much all of their attacks only kill Hamas or those helping them, when it is clear that many of them are hitting pure civilian targets. which would push those losses into the civilian category.
 
#20,347
#20,347
EasternVol said:
Why is it that when you don't have a rebuttal for a comment that doesn't suit you, you like to come back with a put down?
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Right.
Why is it I use terms like Palestinians, people of Gaza and Hamas while you choose propaganda like zombie Zionist, colonizers, blood thirsty weirdo’s of the death cult to justify your inability to explain why people don’t agree with your opinion
 
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#20,350
#20,350
LouderVol said:
you've looked? At what?

Are there hundreds of thousands/millions of Palestinians actively fighting Israel at this moment? plenty of people are showing with their actions they aren't completely in line with what Hamas is doing.

many have tried following Israel's orders to evacuate and get out of the way. what about them? What happens when those people trying to do what Israel tells them are killed? several times by Israel. that isn't encouraging those who aren't Hamas to follow outside instructions, which will make you just lump them in with the terrorists. you are claiming anyone who isn't 100% aligned with Israel are terrorists, its crap.
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Let’s see these links to the people of Gaza demanding the release of the hostages so it will all end.
Where are those anti Hamas demonstrators in Gaza and the West Bank.
Or are we going with “they are just scared their leaders will kill them?
 
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