Israel vs Palestinians

#20,351
#20,351
LouderVol said:
my goal posts have remained the same. I don't think elections have anything to do with responsibility. not for them, not for us. i am just using your argument and applying it to you. you are uncomfortable with it because it highlights your hypocrisy.

you are the one claiming they HAVE responsibility, while for some reason you don't. and its because of some magical button you press every 2/4/6 years? That's incredibly lazy.
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I’m not uncomfortable with anything. I just disagree. You’re the one applying false motives to me to explain why I don’t agree with you.

And then strawman if things I didn’t say.
I thought you we’re better than that.

If you have to start a sentence “you’re just….”then you’re in the wrong
 
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#20,352
#20,352
LouderVol said:
according to Hamas....the one group who would directly benefit from that being true.

I swear you guys will buy whatever bs anyone, including the terrorists, throw out there as long as it fits your preconceived notions. no questions, no rational thought.
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What has happened to prove what he is saying in incorrect? polls show over whelming support, video shows citizens celebrating 10/7, protesters shouting death to Israel, little to no pushback by citizens on Hamas, paramedics helping Hamas retrieve guns from dead Hamas....give me examples of the opposite by Palestinians showing their condemnation of Hamas
 
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#20,353
#20,353
NashVol11 said:
So you know Israelis, the side bombing the hell out of Gaza, but don’t know any Gazans at all. Thanks for proving my exact point lol
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Read it again. I know people from Gaza. Just because they escaped the tyranny doesn’t mean they are not worthy of their opinions. I’ve been in Gaza and the West Bank during peace time. Have you?

How many do you know from Gaza and the West Bank?
 
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#20,356
#20,356
Orangeslice13 said:
Right.
Why is it I use terms like Palestinians, people of Gaza and Hamas while you choose propaganda like zombie Zionist, colonizers, blood thirsty weirdo’s of the death cult to justify your inability to explain why people don’t agree with your opinion
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The ones in Israel and elsewhere pushing and cheering the IDF's actions in Gaza are Zionists, no? So that's an accurate descriptor of who I meant. But I should have written 'a lot of Zionists'.
You mentioned several terms I haven't used. Let's try to be accurate when we say what another poster has written.
 
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#20,359
#20,359
LouderVol said:
what do you mean by we don't see the same results In Palestine? Just because it doesn't match the near 100% its a completely different situation for you? again with you guys being absolutists to avoid taking a real critical look at things.

fine, if you want to be obtuse, how about Putin's recent victory in the 80s? thats more in line with the Palestinian results.

they keep showing up because the lack of support is there. Hamas doesn't have the stranglehold on Palestine as exists in NK. I would also argue they lack the general resources and structure to manufacture near 100% results.

One of the previous break downs showed that a lot of the dissenting votes against Hamas still supported other extremist groups.

maybe that percentage has a little more freedom because of Israel or some other group.

bias selection, I seriously doubt any of these polls got answers from every single Palestinian. and that could push those numbers either way, up or down.

They may not be dead yet because they hadn't had a chance to vote yet. they get their one dissent vote, and then they are removed. 19.6 isn't much higher than the voting age. not that this is a real election.

there are plenty of way to explain how it could happen. there is probably no one single answer and its a mix of things, and probably more than listed above. heck stupidity and human error are part of every poll too. maybe some have figured out how to effectively lie to Hamas about it.

you clinging to absolutist arguments only highlights your bias.
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Yes, we don’t see anywhere near the extreme results in Palestinian polling like we see in places like North Korea.

Glad we could clear that up.

Now, what absolutist arguments am I clinging to?
Or are you mis-remembering again?
 
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#20,360
#20,360
Orangeslice13 said:
Let’s see these links to the people of Gaza demanding the release of the hostages so it will all end.
Where are those anti Hamas demonstrators in Gaza and the West Bank.
Or are we going with “they are just scared their leaders will kill them?
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where did I claim there were demonstrations against Hamas in Gaza or the WB? you want me chasing things I never said in order to deflect what I actually did say.

the proof is in the pudding. how many people is Israel actively having to fight? If Hamas had the vast support you guys are claiming Israel would be doing a lot more fighting, and there would be a lot more casualties.

I have the same sources you claim in Israel. People from Palestine I have talked to. people not aligned with Hamas even though most people would reject that possibility.
 
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#20,362
#20,362
EasternVol said:
I asked you a question which you didn't answer and to which you replied with an insult.
Do you know a good sample size of Palestinian Gazans, or West Bank or East Jerusalem Palestinians?
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Bull ****.
Let’s play that game again where you say I didn’t answer a question only to have it be something I’ve said over 100 times.
You have no new questions.
 
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#20,363
#20,363
LouderVol said:
where did I claim there were demonstrations against Hamas in Gaza or the WB? you want me chasing things I never said in order to deflect what I actually did say.

the proof is in the pudding. how many people is Israel actively having to fight? If Hamas had the vast support you guys are claiming Israel would be doing a lot more fighting, and there would be a lot more casualties.

I have the same sources you claim in Israel. People from Palestine I have talked to. people not aligned with Hamas even though most people would reject that possibility.
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I said I could not find any. And I looked. You claimed I didn’t.
Back up your claim and stop moving goalposts

Before the last election Antifa was out protesting everywhere. They made themselves known. Where are those who disagree with Hamas?
They don’t exist
 
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#20,372
#20,372
whodeycin85 said:
What has happened to prove what he is saying in incorrect? polls show over whelming support, video shows citizens celebrating 10/7, protesters shouting death to Israel, little to no pushback by citizens on Hamas, paramedics helping Hamas retrieve guns from dead Hamas....give me examples of the opposite by Palestinians showing their condemnation of Hamas
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If it was 76% support for real, Hamas would be a LOT BIGGER. There are plenty of videos of the vast majority of civilians fleeing the fighting, not participating in it. that's enough for me to say they aren't 76% behind Hamas. Israel would be in a much much bigger fight than we are seeing if it was 76% of the population was Hamas.

yall have presented a false dichotomy, based on a poll for some reason you guys are taking to heart as a biblical truth. I am trying to point out as we should all know by now that polls can't be trusted, especially when taken from an area under control from dictatorial powers.
 
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#20,373
#20,373
85SugarVol said:
Yes, we don’t see anywhere near the extreme results in Palestinian polling like we see in places like North Korea.

Glad we could clear that up.

Now, what absolutist arguments am I clinging to?
Or are you mis-remembering again?
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The North Korea one. the point wasn't that I thought the support for Hamas was near 100%. The point was the type of manipulation that goes into those numbers, whether its 100%, 76%, or the 88% for Putin.

I don't trust any of those numbers, and the difference between 100% to 76% doesn't reflect my trust them. I pointed out several ways that number could be manipulated, or just straight up be wrong.

I look at the results and I don't see any where close to 76% of the population actively helping Hamas, which leads me to believe that number is bs.

you guys are the ones 'absolutely' clinging to that 76% like you poll every single Palestinian once a month to verify that number.
 
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#20,374
#20,374
they interviewed 0.03% of the population. hardly reflective, only half of that was people in the Gaza, and those they did interview had already been displaced by the fighting and probably a little biased by said acts.

the 76% was never even if they support Hamas itself, it was supporting the attack on 10/7. incredibly damning in and of itself, but for how adamant ALL of you were, thats pretty big distinction. and the poll itself makes the distinction that supporting the attacks doesn't mean supporting Hamas. there is another part that talks about the participation of various groups in the war, which is also 76% for Hamas, but again they specify that isn't support for Hamas. I can see why one would take those numbers as support for Hamas IF the poll didn't directly ask what their support of Hamas was. But seeing as that question is asked and answered its straight up manipulation to claim its 76% or particularly close to that.

"While support for Hamas’ offensive on October the 7th remains as high as it was three months ago,Palestinian support in the West Bank has in fact dropped by 11 points while, surprisingly, support inthe Gaza Strip has increased by 14 points. It is clear from the findings however, that support for theoffensive does not mean support for Hamas. Instead, the findings show that three quarters of thePalestinians believe that the offensive has put the Palestinian-Israeli issue at the center of attentionafter years of neglect at the regional and international levels."

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www.pcpsr.org

the only place I can find 76% "support" for Hamas was in their participation in the war itself. again not actual support for Hamas.
"As we did in our previous poll, we asked in the current one about public satisfaction with therole played during the war by various Palestinian, Arab/regional, and international actors:1. On the Palestinian side, satisfaction with the role of Hamas remains stable at 70% (75%in the West Bank and 62% in the Gaza Strip)"

so what does this magical poll actually say support for Hamas is........ 33% and was a max of 44%
"The current pollindicates a significant change compared to the previous one. In total, only one third of thePalestinians support Hamas today, an 11-point drop. The drop has been almost equal in the WestBank and the Gaza Strip"

curious if 33% support for Hamas changes anyone's opinion on Palestine?
 
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#20,375
#20,375
LouderVol said:
they interviewed 0.03% of the population. hardly reflective, only half of that was people in the Gaza, and those they did interview had already been displaced by the fighting and probably a little biased by said acts.

the 76% was never even if they support Hamas itself, it was supporting the attack on 10/7. incredibly damning in and of itself, but for how adamant ALL of you were, thats pretty big distinction. and the poll itself makes the distinction that supporting the attacks doesn't mean supporting Hamas. there is another part that talks about the participation of various groups in the war, which is also 76% for Hamas, but again they specify that isn't support for Hamas. I can see why one would take those numbers as support for Hamas IF the poll didn't directly ask what their support of Hamas was. But seeing as that question is asked and answered its straight up manipulation to claim its 76% or particularly close to that.

"While support for Hamas’ offensive on October the 7th remains as high as it was three months ago,Palestinian support in the West Bank has in fact dropped by 11 points while, surprisingly, support inthe Gaza Strip has increased by 14 points. It is clear from the findings however, that support for theoffensive does not mean support for Hamas. Instead, the findings show that three quarters of thePalestinians believe that the offensive has put the Palestinian-Israeli issue at the center of attentionafter years of neglect at the regional and international levels."

Loading…

www.pcpsr.org

the only place I can find 76% "support" for Hamas was in their participation in the war itself. again not actual support for Hamas.
"As we did in our previous poll, we asked in the current one about public satisfaction with therole played during the war by various Palestinian, Arab/regional, and international actors:1. On the Palestinian side, satisfaction with the role of Hamas remains stable at 70% (75%in the West Bank and 62% in the Gaza Strip)"

so what does this magical poll actually say support for Hamas is........ 33% and was a max of 44%
"The current pollindicates a significant change compared to the previous one. In total, only one third of thePalestinians support Hamas today, an 11-point drop. The drop has been almost equal in the WestBank and the Gaza Strip"

curious if 33% support for Hamas changes anyone's opinion on Palestine?
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Won’t change minds, the actual number only mattered to them as a means to an end (end being “these civilians aren’t really innocent anyway/it’s okay that they’re being killed en masse”). If it doesn’t support that predetermined conclusion it will become meaningless to them
 
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