I've hesitated to post this thread, but someone has to speak out.

[Vol8188]

I’m not for outlawing or regulating much when it comes to personal freedom. I see you’re trying to pin me down, unsuccessfully, but nice try.

I think it’s better to leave these thing up to the individual and a competent physician, that’s the best source of information and personalized care. If I had to legislate a law that defined when life begins, I would likely say external viability but leave the door open for extreme cases past that, therefore, NOT outlawing anything and addressing nearly 100% of demand.

You should try pinning yourself down, because at this point no one knows what your position is.

You stated legislation written by you would ban/outlaw abortions after 24 months with the exception of extreme circumstances? Now you’re not saying that and are stating you’d “not outlaw anything”

Can you walk us through the exact type of legislation you’d want implemented because at this point I think we are all lost as to where you stand.

 

[Vol8188]

Calling a fetus that can’t live outside the wound a child is disingenuous. Nice try though.

A fetus is 100% a human child. There’s nothing disingenuous about that.

It is disingenuous to pretend it’s just a clump of cells though, given that all life is just a “clump of cells”

 

[Vol8188]

Why would "termination" be needed if life isn't present? It doesn't matter how many medical degrees you can claim, this is quite simply a highly illogical philosophical position.

It’s amazing to proclaim he’s performed thousands of abortions and yet it seems he’s put zero thought into his stance on abortion.

 

[OHvol40]

So what happens at conception?

Cells are dividing.

Words matter. Calling something what it is matters. Case-in-point:

When you crack an egg in the frying pan, do you say you’re having a chicken, or do you say you’re having an egg? You say egg? Well why is that? Why aren’t you having a chicken? At what point would you be frying a chicken instead of an egg? They are clearly two different things, and we recognize that… so how is this any different? To me, child isn’t a child until they can join us in the world and breathe air. Before that, it’s just potential.

 

[C-south]

Cells are dividing.

Words matter. Calling something what it is matters. Case-in-point:

When you crack an egg in the frying pan, do you say you’re having a chicken, or do you say you’re having an egg? You say egg? Well why is that? Why aren’t you having a chicken? At what point would you be frying a chicken instead of an egg? They are clearly two different things, and we recognize that… so how is this any different? To me, child isn’t a child until they can join us in the world and breathe air. Before that, it’s just potential.

Store bought eggs aren’t fertilized.

 

[Vol8188]

Cells are dividing.

Words matter. Calling something what it is matters. Case-in-point:

When you crack an egg in the frying pan, do you say you’re having a chicken, or do you say you’re having an egg? You say egg? Well why is that? Why aren’t you having a chicken? At what point would you be frying a chicken instead of an egg? They are clearly two different things, and we recognize that… so how is this any different? To me, child isn’t a child until they can join us in the world and breathe air. Before that, it’s just potential.

What definition/criteria of life is not met at conception?

And you clearly didn’t grow up on a farm. An egg is a chicken’s period, not it’s child.

 

[OHvol40]

What definition/criteria of life is not met at conception?

And you clearly didn’t grow up on a farm. An egg is a chicken’s period, not it’s child.

Responsive to environment, independent gas exchange, maintaining independent homeostasis…

You go to semantics to avoid the analogy?… What is a fertilized egg?

 

[C-south]

Responsive to environment, independent gas exchange, maintaining independent homeostasis…

You go to semantics to avoid the analogy?… What is a fertilized egg?

The creation of life.

 

[Vol8188]

Responsive to environment, independent gas exchange, maintaining independent homeostasis…

You go to semantics to avoid the analogy?… What is a fertilized egg?

If it was not maintaining homeostasis it would not live. Independent isn’t a condition considering many organisms rely on other organisms. Yes, they respond to their environment. Yes they exchange gases.

Any cell that does not respond to its environment, does not exchange gases, and does not maintain homeostasis dies.

What is a fertilized egg? Asian cuisine. Called bolut. Idk what your point is? If you destroy a fertilized egg, you’ve killed something. It’s not murder because it’s not human. A fetus on the other hand is human.

 

[Vol8188]

@OHvol40 you’ve still yet to lay out for us your version of abortion law.

Can I have an elective abortion at 9 months under your law?

 

[Vol8188]

Cells are dividing.

Words matter. Calling something what it is matters. Case-in-point:

When you crack an egg in the frying pan, do you say you’re having a chicken, or do you say you’re having an egg? You say egg? Well why is that? Why aren’t you having a chicken? At what point would you be frying a chicken instead of an egg? They are clearly two different things, and we recognize that… so how is this any different? To me, child isn’t a child until they can join us in the world and breathe air. Before that, it’s just potential.

What’s the difference between an intubated patient and a viable fetus to you? I see both as murder. You apparently believe both are wrong but only one should be a crime.

Why?

 

[Vol8188]

Cells are dividing.

How can you proclaim to work in the medical field (meaning you should have some knowledge of biology) while also claiming:

“dividing cells aren’t alive”

How much are you willing to lie to justify this and is it us or yourself that you’re lying to?

I would hope any medical provider would know enough to understand that dividing cells are alive

 

[C-south]

@OHvol40 you’ve still yet to lay out for us your version of abortion law.

Can I have an elective abortion at 9 months under your law?

As long as the woman hasn’t given birth it’s cool with him.

 

[C-south]

What’s the difference between an intubated patient and a viable fetus to you? I see both as murder. You apparently believe both are wrong but only one should be a crime.

Why?

I was thinking the same thing. If someone is in a coma and on a respirator it’s cool for absolutely anyone to just unplug them and let them die.

 

[Vol8188]

As long as the woman hasn’t given birth it’s cool with him.

I truly don’t think he knows what’s cool with him. He’s been all over the place.

I think he’s conflicted because of job. He’s allowed paying his mortgage to conflict with his morality. No different than a cop or Nazi solider.

He realizes what he’s saying is wrong but he has to say it because aligning himself with morality wouldn’t be good for his mental health.

 

[Vol8188]

I was thinking the same thing. If someone is in a coma and on a respirator it’s cool for absolutely anyone to just unplug them and let them die.

I love that he’s both stated cells are dividing at conception and that a child is not alive at conception. Either he’s lying about his work (I don’t think so) or he’s being dishonest with himself.

Dividing cells are living cells.

 

[creekdipper]

It's also posible that someone is just being contrarian and/or trolling rather than actually examining the issue logically. The old saw about "imposing beliefs" is just silly. Every law that exists is imposing someone's beliefs upon someone else.

 

[hog88]

How about both?

Penalize criminally those who steal and civilly those who fail to take basic, reasonable precautions with something they should be responsible for.

No. What’s next? Civil penalties for people who have their car stolen out of their garage?

 

[OHvol40]

How can you proclaim to work in the medical field (meaning you should have some knowledge of biology) while also claiming:

“dividing cells aren’t alive”

How much are you willing to lie to justify this and is it us or yourself that you’re lying to?

I would hope any medical provider would know enough to understand that dividing cells are alive

Wow, you are incessant.

The irony is you call me inconsistent. You state there is “gray area” and you want to find middle ground and then jump right back to conception is life. You’re all over the map.

Let me make this perfectly clear for you, since you’re obviously emotional about this, making 4 posts that quote me since I fell asleep last night.

You are defining life, and I’m defining viable human life. Not all life is created equal. Amoebas are not equal to flies, are not equal to mice, are not equal to house cats, are not equal to horses, are not equal to humans. This is a universally accepted truth. Just because your criteria for “murder” is something meeting the criteria for “life”, doesn’t mean it’s my criteria, unless you feel like locking up anyone with a bug zapper as a mass murderer. I say, a life isn’t a human life until it can be a human outside of the wound. I don’t care if you don’t like that, I don’t care if you sensationalize my opinion and call it murder or try to trick others into thinking your opinion matters more by trying to talk down to me. My values and opinions are my own and I own them, I think yours are emotional/religious foolishness that aren’t rooted in practicality, but I’m not gonna send out three subsequent posts after this one explaining why I think you’re so dumb for having your opinion. Your stance likely isn’t even your fault.

 

[Vol8188]

Wow, you are incessant.

The irony is you call me inconsistent. You state there is “gray area” and you want to find middle ground and then jump right back to conception is life. You’re all over the map.

Let me make this perfectly clear for you, since you’re obviously emotional about this, making 4 posts that quote me since I fell asleep last night.

You are defining life, and I’m defining viable human life. Not all life is created equal. Amoebas are not equal to flies, are not equal to mice, are not equal to house cats, are not equal to horses, are not equal to humans. This is a universally accepted truth. Just because your criteria for “murder” is something meeting the criteria for “life”, doesn’t mean it’s my criteria, unless you feel like locking up anyone with a bug zapper as a mass murderer. I say, a life isn’t a human life until it can be a human outside of the wound. I don’t care if you don’t like that, I don’t care if you sensationalize my opinion and call it murder or try to trick others into thinking your opinion matters more by trying to talk down to me. My values and opinions are my own and I own them, I think yours are emotional/religious foolishness that aren’t rooted in practicality, but I’m not gonna send out three subsequent posts after this one explaining why I think you’re so dumb for having your opinion. Your stance likely isn’t your fault.

How is conception starts at life inconsistent with my views? It’s a basic scientific fact that all sides of the argument must accept. Yes, life, obviously begins at conception.

If it’s not a human life that begins at conception, what type of life forms do you believe women who have abortions are producing? Bovine? Lizard? Alien? Obviously it is a human life.

Earlier you defined life as breathing. Then it was about viability. Now we are back to defining life by location (outside the body)?

You have no consistency.

What religious arguments have I made? What emotional arguments?

 

[joevol33]

Wow, you are incessant.

The irony is you call me inconsistent. You state there is “gray area” and you want to find middle ground and then jump right back to conception is life. You’re all over the map.

Let me make this perfectly clear for you, since you’re obviously emotional about this, making 4 posts that quote me since I fell asleep last night.

You are defining life, and I’m defining viable human life. Not all life is created equal. Amoebas are not equal to flies, are not equal to mice, are not equal to house cats, are not equal to horses, are not equal to humans. This is a universally accepted truth. Just because your criteria for “murder” is something meeting the criteria for “life”, doesn’t mean it’s my criteria, unless you feel like locking up anyone with a bug zapper as a mass murderer. I say, a life isn’t a human life until it can be a human outside of the wound. I don’t care if you don’t like that, I don’t care if you sensationalize my opinion and call it murder or try to trick others into thinking your opinion matters more by trying to talk down to me. My values and opinions are my own and I own them, I think yours are emotional/religious foolishness that aren’t rooted in practicality, but I’m not gonna send out three subsequent posts after this one explaining why I think you’re so dumb for having your opinion. Your stance likely isn’t even your fault.

How come you guys don't consider a fetus life until a certain point, but support laws for prison time for destroying eagle and turtle eggs?

 

[EasternVol]

A fetus is 100% a human child. There’s nothing disingenuous about that.

It is disingenuous to pretend it’s just a clump of cells though, given that all life is just a “clump of cells”

Calling a fetus a child is like calling a child an adult. Or an acorn an oak tree. They are related but aren't the same.

 

[OHvol40]

How come you guys don't consider a fetus life until a certain point, but support laws for prison time for destroying eagle and turtle eggs?

I don’t know what magic you possess, but somehow your telepathy has nailed down my biggest political motivation: eagle and turtle eggs. All of us “guys” are creating a mass conspiracy to imprison you “guys” because we all know how much you love smashing eagle eggs.

 

[Vol8188]

Calling a fetus a child is like calling a child an adult. Or an acorn an oak tree. They are related but aren't the same.

If your wife were pregnant would you use the term fetus or child?

Do you do this because you’re a right wing advocate or because in the English language a fetus is a child

 

[EasternVol]

If your wife were pregnant would you use the term fetus or child?

Do you do this because you’re a right wing advocate or because in the English language a fetus is a child

If I was speaking with a medical or other professional it would be fetus. Within the family it would be a euphemism.
In the English language as far as I know a child is older than an infant and not yet an adolescent.
I am neither all in on the right nor on the left. I try to look at issues case by case.