I've hesitated to post this thread, but someone has to speak out.

#501
#501
joevol33 said:
I'm asking a question, and you can't seem to answer. The same people who are all for abortion, are for laws protecting eggs of animals. You're arguing about when a fetus is a life, but think soon as a turtle lays an egg it should be protected. I'm asking to explain that thought process. Obviously, you're going to jump all around it.
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I’ve never considered laws about turtle and eagle eggs. It’s almost like you’ve invented this idea of “the other side” that exists only in your mind. It’s a dehumanizing propaganda ploy that makes it easier for you to see me as an adversary rather than a peer with a different point of view. We all fall for it.
 
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#502
#502
OHvol40 said:
I’ve never considered laws about turtle and eagle eggs. It’s almost like you’ve invented this idea of “the other side” that exists only in your mind. It’s a dehumanizing propaganda ploy that makes you see me as an adversary rather than a peer with a different point of view. We all fall for it.
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Dehumanizing kind of like the other posters on your side who are denying zygotes are human so they can feel better about killing them?

or dehumanizing like when you compared eating an egg to having an abortion?
 
#503
#503
OHvol40 said:
I’ve never considered laws about turtle and eagle eggs. It’s almost like you’ve invented this idea of “the other side” that exists only in your mind. It’s a dehumanizing propaganda ploy that makes you see me as an adversary rather than a peer with a different point of view. We all fall for it.
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I'm truly saying I don't understand, and I don't. How can people say "we gotta protect the turtle eggs", and not care about an unborn child, so much as to say it's not even a life with a heartbeat. Not to mention, late term abortions. You are welcome to your opinion, I just will never understand that thought process.
 
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#504
#504
joevol33 said:
I'm truly saying I don't understand, and I don't. How can people say "we gotta protect the turtle eggs", and not care about an unborn child, so much as to say it's not even a life with a heartbeat. Not to mention, late term abortions. You are welcome to your opinion, I just will never understand that thought process.
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There are polls out where these people would sacrifice a human to save a dog. Literally.

To me there's no reasoning with that. Getting rid of insane asylums was an all-time failure.
 
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#505
#505
joevol33 said:
I'm truly saying I don't understand, and I don't. How can people say "we gotta protect the turtle eggs", and not care about an unborn child, so much as to say it's not even a life with a heartbeat. Not to mention, late term abortions. You are welcome to your opinion, I just will never understand that thought process.
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You’re asking the wrong person, maybe you should ask someone who has said “we gotta protect turtle eggs.” I don’t know how many other ways there are to say this.
 
#507
#507
Vol8188 said:
If the other side refuses to even admit a zygote is alive, human, or even a separate entity we can't progress to legal terms such as personhood. I assume it's by design and that they can't actually be ignorant enough to believe gut bacteria are not a separate life form or that zygotes are not human.

Because if they can pretend this is not a separate, living, human being, they do not have to address the legal questions that come with killing it. There's probably some mental self protection built into that too. No different than a racist pretending minorities to be less than human.
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That is one person.

Pro-abortion arguments can be as varied and nuanced as pro-life arguments.
 
#508
#508
PKT_VOL said:
That is one person.

Pro-abortion arguments can be as varied and nuanced as pro-life arguments.
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Two people actually. Still a small sample sure, but I can only work with what I’m provided here.

And as I stated earlier this is not “nut picking”. If they are to be believed (I believe them) one is a school administrator (masters degree or higher) and the other is a medical provider who has performed many abortions

Edit: out of curiosity do you believe they are making obviously false biological arguments to troll, to disassociate the act to make themselves feel better about their stance, or a third factor I’ve not considered
 
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#509
#509
OHvol40 said:
I’ve never considered laws about turtle and eagle eggs. It’s almost like you’ve invented this idea of “the other side” that exists only in your mind. It’s a dehumanizing propaganda ploy that makes it easier for you to see me as an adversary rather than a peer with a different point of view. We all fall for it.
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But there are unfortunately two all too clearly defined sides with diametrically opposed views and the political parties are each captive to one of the two sides. One side sees America as at its best when it strives to hold on to timeless values of freedom and personal responsibility as spelled out in a objective document called the Constitution. The other side sees America as in need of radical transformation to deal with perceived baked in racism and inequity in which the Constitution itself is an enemy as it established the white suprematist dystopia we live in. The first side sees economic freedom and competition as the natural order and the other sees government largesse sand handouts as the ticket. There is no way theses two sides can ever work together as long as each sees itself as righteous and the other as evil.
 
#510
#510
ButchPlz said:
There are polls out where these people would sacrifice a human to save a dog. Literally.

To me there's no reasoning with that. Getting rid of insane asylums was an all-time failure.
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There are many more people that I would sacrifice to save a dog than the other way around. Some people are just vile pieces of garbage.
 
#511
#511
OrangeTsar said:
But there are unfortunately two all too clearly defined sides with diametrically opposed views and the political parties are each captive to one of the two sides. One side sees America as at its best when it strives to hold on to timeless values of freedom and personal responsibility as spelled out in a objective document called the Constitution. The other side sees America as in need of radical transformation to deal with perceived baked in racism and inequity in which the Constitution itself is an enemy as it established the white suprematist dystopia we live in. The first side sees economic freedom and competition as the natural order and the other sees government largesse sand handouts as the ticket. There is no way theses two sides can ever work together as long as each sees itself as righteous and the other as evil.
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The individuals of this country are more nuanced than that. Sorry. Buying into the notion of a dichotomy is the problem.
 
#512
#512
Vol8188 said:
So a zygote is human? Are you incapable of genuine and logical conversation?
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A zygote is made up of a couple of human cells. We've already agreed to that - right?
You may want to redefine what you consider genuine and logical conversation.
 
#514
#514
luthervol said:
A zygote is made up of a couple of human cells. We've already agreed to that - right?
You may want to redefine what you consider genuine and logical conversation.
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You stated a zygote was not human. If you can’t be honest/genuine on the small things, we can’t build to an actual interesting conversation.

So far you’ve claimed bacteria in your gut are not separate life forms and zygotes are not human.

would you like to amend those statements to something less insane and logical?
 
#516
#516
OHvol40 said:
The individuals of this country are more nuanced than that. Sorry. Buying into the notion of a dichotomy is the problem.
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It is a natural dichotomy. The very fact that America has always had two major political parties ever since it’s founding is not a coincidence. And it is a feature of all human societies throughout history. Hence the very basis of the terms conservative and liberal.
 
#517
#517
Wireless1 said:
So how did the first single cell whatever become a multi cell whatever, and how did the first multicell whatever become a whatever with organs? The biological debate can rage, but at what point is it a body and a spirit?
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No one knows. That's sort of the point.......and the beauty of Roe vs. Wade.
 
#518
#518
creekdipper said:
So what's your point? That we're all just a clump of cells?

Do each human collectively have no more human rights than a single cell, or does each cell gets its own legal representative?
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My point is that humans have far more rights than clumps of cells.
 
#519
#519
Vol8188 said:
Can you explain to those of us with lesser intellect than yourself how a zygote is both human and not human?
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I said it is human cells.
Like my earlobes, my fingers, and my toes.
My earlobes, fingers, and toes do not however account for 22 separate humans. They are simply human parts of a human.
 
#521
#521
Vol8188 said:
You stated a zygote was not human. If you can’t be honest/genuine on the small things, we can’t build to an actual interesting conversation.

So far you’ve claimed bacteria in your gut are not separate life forms and zygotes are not human.

would you like to amend those statements to something less insane and logical?
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Nope, standing by both.
Sorry it doesn't fit your narrative.
 
#524
#524
I like you Luthervol. I shall allow you to remain free when I establish my benevolent dictatorship. I shall need a court Jester
 
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#525
#525
luthervol said:
Nope, standing by both.
Sorry it doesn't fit your narrative.
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It’s not about narrative. It’s about scientific reality. Zygotes inside a woman’s uterus only become zygotes if they are human.

Bacteria inside your body or on your body is a separate life form than you. Location is not relevant.

A zygote inside of a woman’s body is human, alive, and a separate life than that of the mother.

Your willful ignorance of biology does not change that.
 
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