I've hesitated to post this thread, but someone has to speak out.

#527
#527
OrangeTsar said:
But there are unfortunately two all too clearly defined sides with diametrically opposed views and the political parties are each captive to one of the two sides. One side sees America as at its best when it strives to hold on to timeless values of freedom and personal responsibility as spelled out in a objective document called the Constitution. The other side sees America as in need of radical transformation to deal with perceived baked in racism and inequity in which the Constitution itself is an enemy as it established the white suprematist dystopia we live in. The first side sees economic freedom and competition as the natural order and the other sees government largesse sand handouts as the ticket. There is no way theses two sides can ever work together as long as each sees itself as righteous and the other as evil.
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That may be the craziest post ever.
You just described one side as righteous and the other as evil.
I guess you are saying it is exactly because of people like yourself that the two sides cannot work together.
 
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#528
#528
luthervol said:
I have three kids, 2 girls and a boy. All very happy and very successful.
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So if your daughter was 7 months pregnant and someone stabbed her in the stomach, killing the baby, yet your daughter survives what should the person be charged with?
 
#529
#529
OrangeTsar said:
It is a natural dichotomy. The very fact that America has always had two major political parties ever since it’s founding is not a coincidence. And it is a feature of all human societies throughout history. Hence the very basis of the terms conservative and liberal.
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It’s a spectrum and people shouldn’t be defined as plainly liberal or conservative. Furthermore, if left to their own devices without external influence (propaganda) most people don’t fall 100% on one side when presented with individual issues. Having 2 teams with an absolutist approach that bullies people into taking sides isn’t natural and doesn’t reflect the uniqueness of ideals that exists in our society.
 
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#530
#530
Vol8188 said:
It’s not about narrative. It’s about scientific reality. Zygotes inside a woman’s uterus only become zygotes if they are human.

Bacteria inside your body or on your body is a separate life form than you. Location is not relevant.

A zygote inside of a woman’s body is human, alive, and a separate life than that of the mother.

Your willful ignorance of biology does not change that.
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lol.....
Only become zygotes if they are human? HTH???
Bacteria inside of my body are a natural part of my human condition. They are a part of my life form.
Bacteria inside of your body are part of your life form.
 
#531
#531
OrangeTsar said:
I like you Luthervol. I shall allow you to remain free when I establish my benevolent dictatorship. I shall need a court Jester
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As long as you know who is playing the fool. Or maybe it's better if you don't.

.....and I like you also.
 
#533
#533
C-south said:
So if your daughter was 7 months pregnant and someone stabbed her in the stomach, killing the baby, yet your daughter survives what should the person be charged with?
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Attempted murder, and the termination of a viable fetus.
 
#534
#534
luthervol said:
lol.....
Only become zygotes if they are human? HTH???
Bacteria inside of my body are a natural part of my human condition. They are a part of my life form.
Bacteria inside of your body are part of your life form.
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Yes, it will only become a zygote if human. Meaning you can have as many non humans ejaxulate inside of you as you wish. None of them will be capable of turning an egg into a zygote.

If you had an intestinal parasite would that parasite be you or a separate life form? Would your bodies antigens identify them as self or foreign?

It’s amazing the depths you’re willing to go to in an effort to deny a basic scientific fact
 
#536
#536
Vol8188 said:
Yes, it will only become a zygote if human. Meaning you can have as many non humans ejaxulate inside of you as you wish. None of them will be capable of turning an egg into a zygote.

If you had an intestinal parasite would that parasite be you or a separate life form? Would your bodies antigens identify them as self or foreign?

It’s amazing the depths you’re willing to go to in an effort to deny a basic scientific fact
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You can't be serious.
You're jumping from bacteria to parasite? Struggling to make your point I see.
Maybe it's you who should brush up on basic science.
Do you even know the difference between the two?
If so, then that was one heck of a goalpost movement.
 
#538
#538
luthervol said:
You can't be serious.
You're jumping from bacteria to parasite? Struggling to make your point I see.
Maybe it's you who should brush up on basic science.
Do you even know the difference between the two?
If so, then that was one heck of a goalpost movement.
Click to expand...

We aren't moving the goalpost at all. I'm just attempting to see if any life form inside of you with separate DNA counts as a separate life. You claim bacteria is not a separate life.
 
#539
#539
luthervol said:
For the fifth time - human cells.
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Well that can't be possible. You clearly told us all that zygotes are not human.

luthervol said:
What's your point?
That a zygote is a human?
I simply disagree.
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What am I missing, wise one?

Because when the rest of us use the term "zygote" we are speaking about a specific developmental stage within a human life.
 
#540
#540
luthervol said:
That may be the craziest post ever.
You just described one side as righteous and the other as evil.
I guess you are saying it is exactly because of people like yourself that the two sides cannot work together.
Click to expand...
Read again more carefully. I clearly said both sides have to stop viewing themselves as righteous and their opponents as evil. Human progress has always required a balance between carefully progressing while still retaining a healthy respect for tradition and precedence. Otherwise we would still be living in caves.
 
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#541
#541
OrangeTsar said:
Read again more carefully. I clearly said both sides have to stop viewing themselves as righteous and their opponents as evil. Human progress has always required a balance between carefully progressing while still retaining a healthy respect for tradition and precedence. Otherwise we would still be living in caves.
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Yet on this one specific topic the way the left has went out of their way to dehumanize the act, is evil.

There's a generation of women who probably believe the same nonsense that's been said here. That it isn't alive until birth, that it isn't human, that isn't a separate life, etc.
 
#543
#543
Vol8188 said:
We aren't moving the goalpost at all. I'm just attempting to see if any life form inside of you with separate DNA counts as a separate life. You claim bacteria is not a separate life.
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If it's being rejected by your body, then I would say it's not a part of your human body. That would include a splinter. (Or the bean my son put in his nose when he was at day care when he was two) We didn't find that separate life form for a couple of weeks. Doctor said he had removed some from kids that had been in so long they had started sprouting roots.
So the bean would be a separate life form because the body was rejecting it.
 
#544
#544
OHvol40 said:
It’s a spectrum and people shouldn’t be defined as plainly liberal or conservative. Furthermore, if left to their own devices without external influence (propaganda) most people don’t fall 100% on one side when presented with individual issues. Having 2 teams with an absolutist approach that bullies people into taking sides isn’t natural and doesn’t reflect the uniqueness of ideals that exists in our society.
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We actually agree some here.

The terms pro-life and pro-choice for example are absurd given the majority of us believe in some form of limited abortion. That's why I attempted to see if you believed a limit should exist. You disagreed with a limit, then agreed, then disagreed again.
 
#545
#545
Vol8188 said:
Well that can't be possible. You clearly told us all that zygotes are not human.



What am I missing, wise one?

Because when the rest of us use the term "zygote" we are speaking about a specific developmental stage within a human life.
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Good god man.
I was clear. My earlobe is human but is not a separate human.
Same with fingers, toes, and zygotes.......please get a clue.
 
#546
#546
luthervol said:
If it's being rejected by your body, then I would say it's not a part of your human body. That would include a splinter. (Or the bean my son put in his nose when he was at day care when he was two) We didn't find that separate life form for a couple of weeks. Doctor said he had removed some from kids that had been in so long they had started sprouting roots.
So the bean would be a separate life form because the body was rejecting it.
Click to expand...

Patient's with autoimmune disorders would be very upset to hear that their own organs their body is attacking are not actually their organs.

That's amazing that you'd consider a bean in a kid's nose a separate life form but not a human child inside of it's mother's womb.

Can you distinguish why the child is not a separate life form but a bean is?
 
#547
#547
OrangeTsar said:
Read again more carefully. I clearly said both sides have to stop viewing themselves as righteous and their opponents as evil. Human progress has always required a balance between carefully progressing while still retaining a healthy respect for tradition and precedence. Otherwise we would still be living in caves.
Click to expand...
I read it closely. Several times. Maybe you should reread your descriptions of the two sides.

I'm in full agreement with the bolded.
 
#548
#548
luthervol said:
Good god man.
I was clear. My earlobe is human but is not a separate human.
Same with fingers, toes, and zygotes.......please get a clue.
Click to expand...

Okay, why would you categorize zygotes with toes and fingers? Your toes and fingers contain your DNA. A zygote has it's own DNA unique only to the zygote.

Why would it not be a separate life form? Because it would force you to humanize the act of abortion? Or do you have a valid reason?
 
#550
#550
Vol8188 said:
Patient's with autoimmune disorders would be very upset to hear that their own organs their body is attacking are not actually their organs.

That's amazing that you'd consider a bean in a kid's nose a separate life form but not a human child inside of it's mother's womb.

Can you distinguish why the child is not a separate life form but a bean is?
Click to expand...
I would not call a zygote a human child.....far from it (at least 22 weeks)......maybe that's one of your problems.
 
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