I've hesitated to post this thread, but someone has to speak out.

#576
#576
Vol8188 said:
Be specific. Which part is a belief rather than a scientific fact?
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Sandman 423 said:
What is incorrect in his statement? I googled each as written and they all appear to be true.
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I would go with all of these:
A zygote is alive. (made up of living cells like my earlobe)

A zygote is a separate life form from the mother. (nope - not yet)

A zygote is human. (to the same degree as my earlobe)

My earlobe could be cloned - I'm thinking about it.
 
#577
#577
luthervol said:
I would go with all of these:
A zygote is alive. (made up of living cells like my earlobe)

A zygote is a separate life form from the mother. (nope - not yet)

A zygote is human. (to the same degree as my earlobe)

My earlobe could be cloned - I'm thinking about it.
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Let’s go one at a time

If made up of living cells does not equal alive, what does?

Why is a zygote not a separate life form? It can die independent of the host. It has its own cells, it’s own dna.

If having human dna does not make you human, what does?
 
#578
#578
OHvol40 said:
Haha, so I assume you preach about personal liberties and self-determination… except in this instance. 🙄
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Being pro life is about personal liberties and self determination. The most egregious infraction against personal liberty is murder. The baby is losing his or her life in abortion. It is still consistent.
 
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#579
#579
luthervol said:
I would go with all of these:
A zygote is alive. (made up of living cells like my earlobe)

A zygote is a separate life form from the mother. (nope - not yet)

A zygote is human. (to the same degree as my earlobe)

My earlobe could be cloned - I'm thinking about it.
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So google difference of zygote and normal cells. This isn't that difficult.
 
#580
#580
For those making abortion/rape arguments for why abortion should be legal:

IUDs are greater than 99.9% effective in emergency contraception.

Plan B is 89% effective.

They can also be used in combination.
 
#581
#581
StrangeVol said:
So it might as well be me.

The Oklahoma house just passed a bill banning all abortions regardless of the cause of the pregnancy. It's a clone of the Texas law. If their Senate also passes the bill and the governor signs it into law, which I expect they will do, it will be a sad day.

I see this act as an affront to every woman that is, has been, or supports the Lady Vols in any sport. At this point, I would hope the NCAA will act to relocate the Women's College World Series out of Oklahoma. To hold it in Oklahoma City would be beyond ridiculous.

I hope you will join me and many other supporters of women athletes to let our voices be heard.

Finally, I didn't post this topic to launch a discussion of abortion. If you have a different point of view that's fine. Just be aware I will not debate the abortion topic or respond to argumentative posts.
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So this is how things are done? Don't like the political/moral stance of a state and voting base you try to enforce cancel culture? The beauty of Oklahoma or any state for that matter is you don't have to live there or support the laws.
 
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#582
#582
Majors said:
So this is how things are done? Don't like the political/moral stance of a state and voting base you try to enforce cancel culture? The beauty of Oklahoma or any state for that matter is you don't have to live there or support the laws.
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The best part is that they openly post a virtue signal like that and then state they refuse to engage with anyone. God forbid they learn something from it.
 
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#583
#583
Vol8188 said:
The best part is that they openly post a virtue signal like that and then state they refuse to engage with anyone. God forbid they learn something from it.
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One could make a case for every state of laws to remove or ban sports because of something. MLB with voter suppression in Atlanta, cost around 100M in local money.... end result of karma.. World Series in the same year to help recoup.
 
#584
#584
Vol8188 said:
Let’s go one at a time

If made up of living cells does not equal alive, what does?

Why is a zygote not a separate life form? It can die independent of the host. It has its own cells, it’s own dna.

If having human dna does not make you human, what does?
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My earlobe is alive.
Cells die constantly. Having it's own dna is insignificant.
My earlobe, toes, and fingers all have human DNA - none are separate humans. (even though they could be cloned to become separate humans)
Unique human DNA does not make something human.
The DNA in one of my cells could be altered, but that new cell would not then become a unique human.
 
#586
#586
luthervol said:
My earlobe is alive.
Cells die constantly. Having it's own dna is insignificant.
My earlobe, toes, and fingers all have human DNA - none are separate humans. (even though they could be cloned to become separate humans)
Unique human DNA does not make something human.
The DNA in one of my cells could be altered, but that new cell would not then become a unique human.
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If unique dna doesn’t make it a different human, what does?
 
#587
#587
creekdipper said:
But you said that humans are "clumps of cells."

You keep circling around and around. You're in a philosophical box of your own making...with no logical door.
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Where did I say humans are "clumps of cells"?
If you can't show me, then it's you who is boxed in.
 
#588
#588
Vol8188 said:
The best part is that they openly post a virtue signal like that and then state they refuse to engage with anyone. God forbid they learn something from it.
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They are from the lady Vol board. Believe me, those blue hairs and cat people are lunatics
 
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#592
#592
Wireless1 said:
So it’s ok that because we don’t know that RoeVWade we might or might not be killing children?
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It's very telling that one side seems perfectly fine with accepting the possibility that their views might be unjustly eradicating countless millions of humans.

I wonder how they view those in the past who have offered similar "Oops" justifications. "Mistakes were made?"

It's like the "viability" argument. That stance has required constant revision as technological advances have reduced the time needed. So all those poor earlier aborted clumps of cells simply were conceived during the wrong historical era, otherwise they would have been considered to be "human."

That brings up a question for abortion proponents using the "viability" argument. Is there a difference in the humanity of a fetus in an area where life-preserving technology exists vs. a fetus born prematurely in a place where it dpesn't exist?
 
#596
#596
luthervol said:
My earlobe is alive.
Cells die constantly. Having it's own dna is insignificant.
My earlobe, toes, and fingers all have human DNA - none are separate humans. (even though they could be cloned to become separate humans)
Unique human DNA does not make something human.
The DNA in one of my cells could be altered, but that new cell would not then become a unique human.
Click to expand...
Your earlobe is related to your entirety. You as an entity, a person. Just as the zygote is the entity of the human the DNA codes to them, just like you are collectively. Picking a part of your entire being and relating it to an entire being (zygote) is ridiculous. The only comparison is you as a whole vs the zygote as you are made of the same information but at a different stage in your development as a human. You are no more or less human than a toddler who is no more or less human than a baby in the womb.

To your analogy, the bean that starts to sprout is rejected by the body. The baby is eventually rejected by the woman's body at 9ish months. The bean is its own entity. It's own life. Separate from the "host" just as the zygote is.

Before we had a discussion about you not caring about rape victims as it has nothing to do with your position on abortions. You have proven that ten fold with your arguments, specifically of the baby's "ability to live outside the womb" as the qualifier.
 
#597
#597
luthervol said:
It's still a potential life. It's not separate until it is separated.
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You’re confusing location with being a separate entity.

It’s obviously a life. That’s not even remotely debatable. Can you provide any reason it’s not a life?
 
#599
#599
luthervol said:
I would go with all of these:
A zygote is alive. (made up of living cells like my earlobe)

A zygote is a separate life form from the mother. (nope - not yet)

A zygote is human. (to the same degree as my earlobe)

My earlobe could be cloned - I'm thinking about it.
Click to expand...

You're equating zygotes to earlobes re: their level of humanity after saying both are made up of living cells. You have also said that the zygote would be human once separated from its mother.

If A=B and B=C....
 
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#600
#600
utvols88 said:
Your earlobe is related to your entirety. You as an entity, a person. Just as the zygote is the entity of the human the DNA codes to them, just like you are collectively. Picking a part of your entire being and relating it to an entire being (zygote) is ridiculous. The only comparison is you as a whole vs the zygote as you are made of the same information but at a different stage in your development as a human. You are no more or less human than a toddler who is no more or less human than a baby in the womb.

To your analogy, the bean that starts to sprout is rejected by the body. The baby is eventually rejected by the woman's body at 9ish months. The bean is its own entity. It's own life. Separate from the "host" just as the zygote is.

Before we had a discussion about you not caring about rape victims as it has nothing to do with your position on abortions. You have proven that ten fold with your arguments, specifically of the baby's "ability to live outside the womb" as the qualifier.
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Not caring about rape victims?.........what a pathetically stupid accusation (so much so that it negates pretty much everything you have to say)

You can claim as long as you wish that a zygote is a separate human, but most will continue to consider it an absurd position.
The dna in a cell from my earlobe can be altered - it would not become a separate person.
The dna in identical twins is identical but they are not one individual.
Unique DNA does not equal unique individual. Identical twins are unique even though they share the same dna.
When eggs are fertilized in test tubes - a unique human has not been created (but can become one).
If 12 eggs are fertilized, and the strongest is picked for implantation - 11 murders were not committed.
If you believe that a zygote is a unique separate human, and should be viewed the same as a 6 month old fetus or a 6 year old child, then you should be more concerned with the 75% of zygotes which never reach the 6 week point of development.
You should be crying over the billions of humans lost that we were never even aware of. Your focus should be less on abortion and more on what can be done to reduce that 75% number to 60%, or 50% or 10%.
Your position, actions, and feigned indignation are absurdly inconsistent.
 
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