I've hesitated to post this thread, but someone has to speak out.

#627
#627
luthervol said:
lol....So when did the dandelion's life begin?
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Let's start here, do you believe the dandelion is alive?

Germination. Prior to germination the plant lacked a full set of DNA and lacked the ability to replicate. Which is one of the hallmarks of life.
 
#629
#629
Vol8188 said:
Let's start here, do you believe the dandelion is alive?

Germination. Prior to germination the plant lacked a full set of DNA and lacked the ability to replicate. Which is one of the hallmarks of life.
Click to expand...
The seed has the full set of DNA, germination has nothing to do with it.
So is the seed a live dandelion?
 
#630
#630
luthervol said:
The seed has the full set of DNA, germination has nothing to do with it.
So is the seed a live dandelion?
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If it has a full set of DNA and is now capable of dividing, yes it is alive. Earlier I confused the term germination with pollination. Once pollinated, yes the seed is now a separate life form and alive.

Yes the seed is alive, yes it is a dandelion the same way a caterpillar is a butterfly simply in a different stage of development.

Are you arguing that a growing seed is not actually alive?
 
#631
#631
luthervol said:
Do you think any of that is contradictory?
You are struggling mightily to makes points that simply are not there.
An ability to live outside of the womb is viability.
It's not a separate life until it is separate........that's sort of definitional.
Cloning isn't a red herring, it's an issue that doesn't fit your nonsensical black and white perspective.
I never dehumanized a test tube baby, that's simply a gross misunderstanding on your part (or a lie).
Now if 10 eggs are fertilized and the strongest is chosen for implantation, did we just kill 9 humans? Ridiculous
Why in the world would I think otherwise about a lack of concern about the 75% of zygotes that never develop to 6 weeks?
I don't know, maybe because I have never once seen a single person mention them in any of the countless abortion debates (or anywhere else) in the PF.
A sperm and an egg do not make a new life, that's an absurd proposition. A sperm and an egg create the potential for a new life. The potential for life is special, but not nearly as special as life itself.
You guys have zero credibility. If 75% of newborns never reached 6 weeks of age, every one of you would be rightfully screaming for answers and actions to be taken to reduce that number. You're ignorantly straining at the gnat while swallowing a camel. (It hurts your argument and is one of many reasons why no one takes you seriously)
Do yourself a favor: get a clue, broaden your perspective, and strive for at least a little consistency.
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Your qualifier of separation means that if a baby is born but still connected to the umbilical cord, killing it means it was not human. Or in the event of a c section, the baby's life could still be terminated as it isn't a life while the mother is open and the amniotic sac still contains the baby. Your take is that of an incredibly dumb person and is still incoherent.
 
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#632
#632
Vol8188 said:
Let's start here, do you believe the dandelion is alive?

Germination. Prior to germination the plant lacked a full set of DNA and lacked the ability to replicate. Which is one of the hallmarks of life.
Click to expand...
Maybe an orange is really one big orange with a bunch of little baby oranges inside of it.
 
#634
#634
Vol8188 said:
If it has a full set of DNA and is now capable of dividing, yes it is alive. Earlier I confused the term germination with pollination. Once pollinated, yes the seed is now a separate life form and alive.

Yes the seed is alive, yes it is a dandelion the same way a caterpillar is a butterfly simply in a different stage of development.

Are you arguing that a growing seed is not actually alive?
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I'm saying that an orange seed inside of an orange is not a separate orange but a potential orange, even though it has all of the DNA of an orange and an embryo.
 
#635
#635
luthervol said:
I'm saying that an orange seed inside of an orange is not a separate orange but a potential orange, even though it has all of the DNA of an orange and an embryo.
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Is a dividing dandelion seed alive or not? You’re ignoring the question and moving on to more random examples
 
#636
#636
utvols88 said:
Your qualifier of separation means that if a baby is born but still connected to the umbilical cord, killing it means it was not human. Or in the event of a c section, the baby's life could still be terminated as it isn't a life while the mother is open and the amniotic sac still contains the baby. Your take is that of an incredibly dumb person and is still incoherent.
Click to expand...

Never thought about that before. An UC that supplies oxygen and nutrients to a living being. Whether it is a human or not, by any measure it is "killing"
 
#637
#637
utvols88 said:
Your qualifier of separation means that if a baby is born but still connected to the umbilical cord, killing it means it was not human. Or in the event of a c section, the baby's life could still be terminated as it isn't a life while the mother is open and the amniotic sac still contains the baby. Your take is that of an incredibly dumb person and is still incoherent.
Click to expand...
That is a stupid take. Like I said earlier, I view it as equally stupid and indefensible as stating that life begins when a sperm fertilizes an egg.
Trying to draw a definable and indisputable line at the point where life begins is an absurd undertaking.
Which takes me full circle to...........Roe vs. Wade was genius.
 
#638
#638
luthervol said:
That is a stupid take. Like I said earlier, I view it as equally stupid and indefensible as stating that life begins when a sperm fertilizes an egg.
Trying to draw a definable and indisputable line at the point where life begins is an absurd undertaking.
Which takes me full circle to...........Roe vs. Wade was genius.
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That is a stupid take. It's your take, chief.
 
#639
#639
Vol8188 said:
Is a dividing dandelion seed alive or not? You’re ignoring the question and moving on to more random examples
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Is a dandelion seed which contains all of the DNA and an embryo alive or not?
Is the seed a dandelion or is it a dandelion seed?

My answer will remain the same.....it's a developmental process....a continuum. There is no exact moment when it magically and instantly goes from not a dandelion to a dandelion.
Sort of the same with humans.
 
#640
#640
StrangeVol said:
So it might as well be me.

The Oklahoma house just passed a bill banning all abortions regardless of the cause of the pregnancy. It's a clone of the Texas law. If their Senate also passes the bill and the governor signs it into law, which I expect they will do, it will be a sad day.

I see this act as an affront to every woman that is, has been, or supports the Lady Vols in any sport. At this point, I would hope the NCAA will act to relocate the Women's College World Series out of Oklahoma. To hold it in Oklahoma City would be beyond ridiculous.

I hope you will join me and many other supporters of women athletes to let our voices be heard.

Finally, I didn't post this topic to launch a discussion of abortion. If you have a different point of view that's fine. Just be aware I will not debate the abortion topic or respond to argumentative posts.
Click to expand...

I've hesitated to ask you this question but, are you or a member of your family, in any way Affiliated with Planned Parenthood?
 
#641
#641
luthervol said:
Is a dandelion seed which contains all of the DNA and an embryo alive or not?
Is the seed a dandelion or is it a dandelion seed?

My answer will remain the same.....it's a developmental process....a continuum. There is no exact moment when it magically and instantly goes from not a dandelion to a dandelion.
Sort of the same with humans.
Click to expand...

You ignored the question. Is it alive?

If it is not alive, how is it capable of replicating?
 
#642
#642
utvols88 said:
That is a stupid take. It's your take, chief.
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It was tongue in cheek doofus.
I'm mirroring the absurdity. Did you not see me say earlier that I viewed them as equally stupid and indefensible?
Should have known it was beyond your grasp........chief.
 
#643
#643
luthervol said:
That is a stupid take. Like I said earlier, I view it as equally stupid and indefensible as stating that life begins when a sperm fertilizes an egg.
Trying to draw a definable and indisputable line at the point where life begins is an absurd undertaking.
Which takes me full circle to...........Roe vs. Wade was genius.
Click to expand...

Dividing cells with a full set of dna = living cells. Outside of you, no one else is debating that point
 
#644
#644
Vol8188 said:
You ignored the question. Is it alive?

If it is not alive, how is it capable of replicating?
Click to expand...
It's a stupid question. It consists of living cells and represents a potential living dandelion.
All living cells are living.........not sure what your angle is, but it seems a little irrelevant.
 
#645
#645
utvols88 said:
Your qualifier of separation means that if a baby is born but still connected to the umbilical cord, killing it means it was not human. Or in the event of a c section, the baby's life could still be terminated as it isn't a life while the mother is open and the amniotic sac still contains the baby. Your take is that of an incredibly dumb person and is still incoherent.
Click to expand...
Orangeburst said:
Never thought about that before. An UC that supplies oxygen and nutrients to a living being. Whether it is a human or not, by any measure it is "killing"
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These people don't even care if the baby is actually connected- their argument boils down to "if the baby/child is still dependent on something, it is a parasite, and can be killed". This broadly applies to age groups all the way up into the teens, really- which is why the left itself isn't outraged over the attempt in California to legally kill born babies within 7 days of birth, and why they didn't care when Governor Coonman here in Virginia directly stated he was OK with killing born kids. Their disrespect of life is also reflected in how they want to mutilate, medicate, rape, and sterilize kids around the country. They don't see them as humans.
 
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#646
#646
Vol8188 said:
Dividing cells with a full set of dna = living cells. Outside of you, no one else is debating that point
Click to expand...
Where did I ever debate that point?
I've always maintained living cells are living. sperm, egg, the cells that make up my earlobe.
 
#647
#647
luthervol said:
That is a stupid take. Like I said earlier, I view it as equally stupid and indefensible as stating that life begins when a sperm fertilizes an egg.
Trying to draw a definable and indisputable line at the point where life begins is an absurd undertaking.
Which takes me full circle to...........Roe vs. Wade was genius.
Click to expand...

Yet we both agree that it’s alive post fertilization…
 
#648
#648
ButchPlz said:
These people don't even care if the baby is actually connected- their argument boils down to "if the baby/child is still dependent on something, it is a parasite, and can be killed". This broadly applies to age groups all the way up into the teens, really- which is why the left itself isn't outraged over the attempt in California to legally kill born babies within 7 days of birth, and why they didn't care when Governor Coonman here in Virginia directly stated he was OK with killing born kids. Their disrespect of life is also reflected in how they want to mutilate, medicate, rape, and sterilize kids around the country. They don't see them as humans.
Click to expand...
^^^^^Nominated for stupidest post of the year ^^^^^^^
 
#649
#649
luthervol said:
Where did I ever debate that point?
I've always maintained living cells are living. sperm, egg, the cells that make up my earlobe.
Click to expand...

When you called it stupid and indefensible to claim life begins at fertilization. You seem to be speaking out of both ends of your ass here, given we both seem to agree a zygote is alive.
 
#650
#650
luthervol said:
^^^^^Nominated for stupidest post of the year ^^^^^^^
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It's not my side of the spectrum that's introducing this stuff. It's not my side of the spectrum that's advocating for butchering kids in the name of "inclusivity". It's not my side of the spectrum introducing bills and speaking out in favor of post-birth abortions. It's not my side of the spectrum actually aborting kids just before birth. It's yours.

You own it. You. You can call me stupid all you like, at least I'm not part of this evil.
 
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