James Franklin is supposedly....

#251
#251
VolsSportsFan said:
Seriously, how is Munchak a better candidate?
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Aside from comparing the HC record over 3 years being ins Franklin's favor. Once again we're comparing apples to oranges here. What Would you say makes Franklin better?

You have a better record over 3 years...which can't exactly be compared efficiently. And the fact that Franklin is a respected recruiter. As far as I am concerned, Munchak has everything else tipping to his side of the scale.

For what it is worth. I'm not 100% convinced either of the two options being discussed will be the guy. And like I previously stated, I've been known to be wrong on these things.
 
#252
#252
bamawriter said:
C'mon, SportsFan. It couldn't be more obvious.

Of course PSU should hire a guy who's never been involved with college recruiting aside from his own, and we all know that recruiting has changed very little since 1977. The perfect guy to handle a program hamstrung by scholarship limitations is a guy who has never been involved in college coaching.

Join the real world, SportsFan!
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According to Scout, Vandy is ranked #36 in recruiting and #12 in the SEC. He's not even pulling the best kids in Tennessee. CBJ is taking care of that. Yep, that Franklin is a real recruiting juggernaut...
 
#253
#253
Tennkook said:
You are assuming lack of recruiting means that he wont be a great recruiter. Could be fair, may not be fair.

Franklin may be know and a good recruiting. But with the 33rd ranked recruiting class, I would beg to differ. I know it is comparing apples to Oranges, but your beloved bama would burn down if you have the 33rd ranked recruiting class.
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Your second paragraph is apples-to-oranges, and since you're aware of that, I'm going to skip it.

As to your first point, Munchak may wind up being a great recruiter. I kind of doubt he'd be amazing at it, given his personality, but I have no way of knowing that for sure. Either way, he's never done it. PSU would be taking a massive risk. There is a reason major college programs don't hire guys who have never even been position coaches in the college game, at any level.
 
#254
#254
90 Vol said:
According to Scout, Vandy is ranked #36 in recruiting and #12 in the SEC. He's not even pulling the best kids in Tennessee. CBJ is taking care of that. Yep, that Franklin is a real recruiting juggernaut...
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How did Vandy's recruiting classes rank, on average, prior to Franklin's arrival?

After the sanctions are over, will it be easier for the average coach to recruit to Penn State or Vanderbilt?

Think about the answers to those questions, then stop making ridiculous points.
 
#255
#255
bamawriter said:
Your second paragraph is apples-to-oranges, and since you're aware of that, I'm going to skip it.

As to your first point, Munchak may wind up being a great recruiter. I kind of doubt he'd be amazing at it, given his personality, but I have no way of knowing that for sure. Either way, he's never done it. PSU would be taking a massive risk. There is a reason major college programs don't hire guys who have never even been position coaches in the college game, at any level.
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But they would be taking a risk on a PSU guy. Lets not downplay the big stick some of the old PSU guys might be carrying.

Also, are you implying that hiring Franklin to a big name school would not be a risk?
 
#256
#256
Tennkook said:
But they would be taking a risk on a PSU guy. Lets not downplay the big stick some of the old PSU guys might be carrying.
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Munch would absolutely appeal to some of the old money guys. No doubt about it. I don't think he'd really excite the average fan.

Also, are you implying that hiring Franklin to a big name school would not be a risk?
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Less of a risk than Munchak? Absolutely. There is no rational way to argue otherwise.
 
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#257
#257
bamawriter said:
Munch would absolutely appeal to some of the old money guys. No doubt about it. I don't think he'd really excite the average fan.



Less of a risk than Munchak? Absolutely. There is no rational way to argue otherwise.
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Not arguing that Franklin is more of a risk. Just sounded like you were trying to imply there was not risk with Franklin
 
#258
#258
Tennkook said:
Not arguing that Franklin is more of a risk. Just sounded like you were trying to imply there was not risk with Franklin
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I've never indicated that I think Franklin is the perfect fit for PSU. My stance has only been that he's a much, much better pick than Munchak.
 
#260
#260
bamawriter said:
How did Vandy's recruiting classes rank, on average, prior to Franklin's arrival?

After the sanctions are over, will it be easier for the average coach to recruit to Penn State or Vanderbilt?

Think about the answers to those questions, then stop making ridiculous points.
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One could make the case that Penn State would be easier to recruit from given the tradition. However, pointing out Vandy's current recruiting performance is not a ridiculous point. It's a fact.
 
#262
#262
How good of a recruiter was BOB prior to Penn State? Where was BOB hc prior to Penn St.? Munch is who they want, imo.
 
#263
#263
Tennkook said:
Aside from comparing the HC record over 3 years being ins Franklin's favor. Once again we're comparing apples to oranges here. What Would you say makes Franklin better?

You have a better record over 3 years...which can't exactly be compared efficiently. And the fact that Franklin is a respected recruiter. As far as I am concerned, Munchak has everything else tipping to his side of the scale.

For what it is worth. I'm not 100% convinced either of the two options being discussed will be the guy. And like I previously stated, I've been known to be wrong on these things.
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The only things I see in Munchak's favor is he's an alum, and appears to be a very good man who is very loyal.

He was 22-26 as a HC for the Titans, with a 3-20 record against teams over .500. In that time he had some pretty bad losses that cost him a playoff spot (Colts 2011, Jags, Texas 2013). He never had a winning record or a playoff spot. He's never had any college coaching job at all, and spent his entire coaching career with one organization, an organization who can at best be described as "mediocre".

James Franklin, regardless of how you breakdown his accomplishments, has turned around the worst program in SEC History and one of the worst football programs historically period. He's gone to 3 straight bowls, and before him Vandy had gone to 4 total. He's doubled their bowl wins in 3 years. Before him they had only had 2 9 win seasons in their entire history and the last one was 1915, and he's done it 2 years in a row.

I've been critical of him and how weak their schedule has been, but there is really no comparison if you're deciding between Franklin and Munchak for the PSU job. PSU would be stupid to take Munchak over Franklin. Munchak sounds like their contingency plan should Franklin not want the job, and that's the only way I see him getting it.
 
#264
#264
VolsSportsFan said:
The only things I see in Munchak's favor is he's an alum, and appears to be a very good man who is very loyal.

He was 22-26 as a HC for the Titans, with a 3-20 record against teams over .500. In that time he had some pretty bad losses that cost him a playoff spot (Colts 2011, Jags, Texas 2013). He never had a winning record or a playoff spot. He's never had any college coaching job at all, and spent his entire coaching career with one organization, an organization who can at best be described as "mediocre".

James Franklin, regardless of how you breakdown his accomplishments, has turned around the worst program in SEC History and one of the worst football programs historically period. He's gone to 3 straight bowls, and before him Vandy had gone to 4 total. He's doubled their bowl wins in 3 years. Before him they had only had 2 9 win seasons in their entire history and the last one was 1915, and he's done it 2 years in a row.

I've been critical of him and how weak their schedule has been, but there is really no comparison if you're deciding between Franklin and Munchak for the PSU job. PSU would be stupid to take Munchak over Franklin. Munchak sounds like their contingency plan should Franklin not want the job, and that's the only way I see him getting it.
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So you think they'll offer Jimmy Frank the job? I think it's Munchak's.
 
#266
#266
tim said:
More wins versus winning teams in NFL vs college. Easy as that.
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Munchak only has 3 wins vs teams that finished with winning records. Franklin has 4. This despite the fact that Munchak has coached 9 more games than Franklin.

tim said:
How good of a recruiter was BOB prior to Penn State? Where was BOB hc prior to Penn St.? Munch is who they want, imo.
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O'Brien had coached in college for nine years, and had been a GA for 3 years prior to that. He wasn't a head coach, but he'd at least been involved with recruiting. Munchak never has.
 
#268
#268
9-7 his first year. Last time I checked that was a winning record. 2nd in afc south 2 of 3 years. If I recall correctly Vandy have been 4th in SEC east 3 straight years. NFL is a different ball games. Not to many teams with glorious records at the end of the year. I say that to say this...Once again. It's apples to oranges. You simply can not compare win/lose records between NFL and NCAA...
 
#269
#269
bamawriter dont get sucked into the NFL/ NCAA comparison. You are better than that.
 
#270
#270
VolsSportsFan said:
O'Brien spent over a decade coaching in the ACC.
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Yes, but how good of a recruiter was he? Most kids go to State because its State. Recruiting is done by assistants (for the most part) and I'm sure there are some good ones out there.

A win versus a San Diego Chargers team versus UMass is really not comparable. Munch is the logical hire here.
 
#271
#271
Tennkook said:
9-7 his first year. Last time I checked that was a winning record. 2nd in afc south 2 of 3 years. If I recall correctly Vandy have been 4th in SEC east 3 straight years. NFL is a different ball games. Not to many teams with glorious records at the end of the year. I say that to say this...Once again. It's apples to oranges. You simply can not compare win/lose records between NFL and NCAA...
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Worst analogy ever
 
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#273
#273
Tennkook said:
9-7 his first year. Last time I checked that was a winning record. 2nd in afc south 2 of 3 years. If I recall correctly Vandy have been 4th in SEC east 3 straight years. NFL is a different ball games. Not to many teams with glorious records at the end of the year. I say that to say this...Once again. It's apples to oranges. You simply can not compare win/lose records between NFL and NCAA...
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You're right, he was 9-7. However I fail to see how second in the AFC South is that impressive, especially this year.

But if you want to throw out win/loss records, fine. Franklin is still clearly a better candidate based on NCAA experience alone. Munch hasn't been involved in NCAA football for over 30 years.
 
#274
#274
tim said:
Yes, but how good of a recruiter was he? Most kids go to State because its State. Recruiting is done by assistants (for the most part) and I'm sure there are some good ones out there.
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Tell Nick Saban, Les Miles, Hugh Freeze, Urban Meyer, Mark Right, Jimbos Fisher, Gus Malzahn and a host of other solid coaches that "recruiting is done by assistants."

A win versus a San Diego Chargers team versus UMass is really not comparable. Munch is the logical hire here.
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They aren't comparable, but you are doing everything in your power to compare them.
 
#275
#275
tim said:
Yes, but how good of a recruiter was he? Most kids go to State because its State. Recruiting is done by assistants (for the most part) and I'm sure there are some good ones out there.

A win versus a San Diego Chargers team versus UMass is really not comparable. Munch is the logical hire here.
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If recruiting is done by the assistants, and O'Brien was an assistant for a decade, then I would say he probably pretty decent at it.

The bolded part, you simply can't say that with a straight face.
 
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