JFK assassination expert: Lee Harvey Oswald lone gunman theory is ‘bulls–t’

[Zues1]

My guess is they didn’t expect Oswald to get far, and he was so confused that nothing he said would make sense. Ruby was tied to the mob, and they probably threatened to kill any family members he had as well as associates.

Yep, thats the " theory". Still seems like a roll of the dice Ruby would remain quite when that possibly could have been easily eliminated. I mean we're not talking about fixing gambling machines or a drug deal. Taking out the president is a little bit bigger of a situation.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

What specifically would/could be done at this point to change your mind?

Declassify and unredact all the documents. Seems like they should have nothing to hide if the Warren Commission report is correct and accurate.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I too have seen that experiment. It was interesting

And again, anybody can "recreate" something with animation and try to convince someone.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Jack Ruby is an interesting guy in all this but he was probably just an easily influenced stooge

He was a key player in everything that went down not just in Dealey Plaza, but what happened in Oak Cliff.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Allen Dulles . That’s my current theory on this subject. LHO was one of several useful idiots staged across several big cities. Oswald drew the short straw.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I have an m91 carcano. Not the same gun that was used but same workings. I’ve attempted the shot and distance on a stationary target several times. I don’t think it can be done.

Well lets back up just a bit. Everyone is saying Mannlicher-Carcano, but one of the first officers on the scene at the 6th floor of the TSBD (Roger Craig) said that the rifle they actually found in the sniper's nest was a Mauser, and the gun actually had it stamped Mauser on the butt. This was not only confirmed at the time by Craig, but there were several World War II and Korean veterans that were Dallas PD that agreed it was a Mauser at that moment.

Also, it has been confirmed and should be noted that there were several frames removed from the Zapruder film. So the timeline for the shooting may actually be a bit longer than originally advertised.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

If it was a conspiracy wouldn't the shooters have been eliminated very soon after the assasination? Dead men tell no tales and all that.

That is one of the reasons why I said "alleged" shooter. The fact of him being alive as far as I know is a headscratcher. But the tale he tells is very convincing. He was on the FBI radar all the way back to spring of 1964, and in the CIA working on special assignments in the late 1950s over in SE Asia.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I'm not discounting a conspiracy/cia involvement.
The person that made me question a conspiracy is Jack Ruby. If Oswald was a hired hitman and Ruby was hired to take him out why was Ruby allowed to live another 3+years before his death with the possibility to spill the beans on who hired him? Why not a " heart attack" a " suicide" .

They tried to kill him with cancer, in my opinion. That is some of the research work they were doing in New Orleans at the Oschner hospital that David Ferrie and Oswald were involved with. They were already able to create a way by the mid-1960s that you could have fast acting cancers. It was also one of the ways they were attempting to kill Castro.

Additionally why not kill Oswald before he was allowed to be arrested.

You have to go back to Oak Cliff and what all went down there. There were possibly two events that would have likely been events that Oswald would have been dealt with. The first was when he went back to his rooming house on Beckley where it was testified that a cop car rolled by honking the horn, as if they were trying to summon someone from inside. The next event happened a few minutes later near the corner of 10th and Patton where Officer Tippit was shot. It is likely that Tippit (or someone else on the scene) was supposed to kill Oswald.

Seems a bit sloppy planning the biggest assassination in history, in broad daylight with hundreds of possible witnesses and the assassin allowed to escape.

I give you that, it was sloppy...

You have at least a dozen witnesses just in Oak Cliff at the Tippit murder scene that could have been/should have been thoroughly interrogated and it could have tied up a bunch of loose ends. Or, maybe they were interrogated and were slowly "taken care of". You know, sudden accidents or quirky deaths occur sometimes...

Also, if a person really wanted to be honest and look at the evidence fairly, I personally count at least 7 shots taken in Dealey Plaza (possibly up to 11 if you are being very liberal about some of the information) and up to 3 assassins (I'm still on the fence about a 4th assassin).

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

If it was a conspiracy wouldn't the shooters have been eliminated very soon after the assasination? Dead men tell no tales and all that.

There are at least two snipers on the scene that lived on for many years afterwards with no issues. Charles Harrelson, Woody's father, was on the scene in Dealey Plaza and lived another 40+ years and ended up getting arrested for an assassination of a Federal judge.

I guess I say all of that to say this. We are in a labor shortage in this country right now and people with specialized skills are in high demand, so we know how valuable talent is. These guys were specialized killers. I would assume that these guys were compensated handsomely and were used on other jobs after Dealey Plaza. There is even a very remote possibility (I say very remote because I saw it claimed a few years ago, but haven't seen anything else to corroborate it) that Harrelson may have been in Memphis in April 1968...

 

[Orangeslice13]

Well lets back up just a bit. Everyone is saying Mannlicher-Carcano, but one of the first officers on the scene at the 6th floor of the TSBD (Roger Craig) said that the rifle they actually found in the sniper's nest was a Mouser, and the gun actually had it stamped Mouser on the butt. This was not only confirmed at the time by Craig, but there were several World War II and Korean veterans that were Dallas PD that agreed it was a Mouser at that moment.

Also, it has been confirmed and should be noted that there were several frames removed from the Zapruder film. So the timeline for the shooting may actually be a bit longer than originally advertised.

There’s an audio recording of the shots.
We know how long they took.
I’ve tried the same test with an FR8 that I hunt with regularly and a VZ24. It can’t be done by an average shooter. I’d argue it’s unlikely for a professional. Then add moving and through trees.
It’s just not a single shooter

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

My guess is they didn’t expect Oswald to get far, and he was so confused that nothing he said would make sense. Ruby was tied to the mob, and they probably threatened to kill any family members he had as well as associates.

He was in the mob. He automatically knew that death would be a consequence if he snitched. He didn't need any warnings or threats to realize that. Also, Dorothy Kilgallen was given (allegedly) enough evidence by Jack Ruby to break open the story because she spent a large amount of time researching people and events in New Orleans. She was the first (and I think only) reporter to interview Ruby soon after his arrest in Dallas. She was also famous for breaking the story on Sam Sheppard ("The Fugitive") case in the 1950s. Unfortunately, she suffered an overdose and died in her NYC apartment. That is a whole different story all together, because that crime scene and circumstances around her death were ridiculous.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Allen Dulles . That’s my current theory on this subject. LHO was one of several useful idiots staged across several big cities. Oswald drew the short straw.

Well you bring up another interesting player in all of this because Kennedy fired Dulles after the Bay of Pigs fiasco and swore to break up the CIA afterwards. Now, you place that guy on the Warren Commission?

 

[n_huffhines]

I'm not discounting a conspiracy/cia involvement.
The person that made me question a conspiracy is Jack Ruby. If Oswald was a hired hitman and Ruby was hired to take him out why was Ruby allowed to live another 3+years before his death with the possibility to spill the beans on who hired him? Why not a " heart attack" a " suicide" .
Additionally why not kill Oswald before he was allowed to be arrested.
Seems a bit sloppy planning the biggest assassination in history, in broad daylight with hundreds of possible witnesses and the assassin allowed to escape.

The whole Ruby thing is weird because there is evidence that he acted in a fit of passion. I might get the details wrong, but the point is the details indicated it was just happenstance that Ruby was there at the right time. He had time-stamped receipts from the laundromat across the street that put him there like 5 minutes before the assassination, and Jack Ruby was being escorted by the police 90 minutes later than scheduled. So it doesn't seem like Ruby was there to kill LHO. He just saw him coming out and was like, "f*** this guy." and raged.

 

[landscapingvol]

And again, anybody can "recreate" something with animation and try to convince someone.

It wasn't an animation

 

[rjd970]

Declassify and unredact all the documents. Seems like they should have nothing to hide if the Warren Commission report is correct and accurate.

Depends on what other information is included. Anything with source identification would be classified.

 

[GroverCleveland]

Well lets back up just a bit. Everyone is saying Mannlicher-Carcano, but one of the first officers on the scene at the 6th floor of the TSBD (Roger Craig) said that the rifle they actually found in the sniper's nest was a Mouser, and the gun actually had it stamped Mouser on the butt. This was not only confirmed at the time by Craig, but there were several World War II and Korean veterans that were Dallas PD that agreed it was a Mouser at that moment.

Also, it has been confirmed and should be noted that there were several frames removed from the Zapruder film. So the timeline for the shooting may actually be a bit longer than originally advertised.

Think you meant Mauser. Mouser is a cat effective at catching mice.

 

[hog88]

Depends on what other information is included. Anything with source identification would be classified.

There are no sources still alive.

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Well you bring up another interesting player in all of this because Kennedy fired Dulles after the Bay of Pigs fiasco and swore to break up the CIA afterwards. Now, you place that guy on the Warren Commission?

I can’t believe I’m saying this again, but Oliver Stone’s recent documentary that follows up his JFK movie with the actual people involved , with real audio makes a very compelling argument that the CIA, or former players in the CIA were the ones that conducted the assassination. Beyond that, Marine or no Marine, I have a very hard time believing that LHO makes those shots with “that” rifle . I just don’t buy it. Like you said, it was very convenient that Dulles among others were on the Commission.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Think you meant Mauser. Mouser is a cat effective at catching mice.

My fault.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

There are no sources still alive.

Doesn't matter, imo, if they are alive or not.

 

[GroverCleveland]

There’s an audio recording of the shots.
We know how long they took.
I’ve tried the same test with an FR8 that I hunt with regularly and a VZ24. It can’t be done by an average shooter. I’d argue it’s unlikely for a professional. Then add moving and through trees.
It’s just not a single shooter

World War 1 Rifles and the Mad Minute – Kansas WW1

Prior to WWI, British infantrymen were required to pass a test requiring they get off as many rounds as they could of aimed fire within one minute. They passed if they had fifteen hits on a 300 yard target within that minute, or a hit every four seconds. Again, at 300 yards over iron sights. The record number of hits during the Mad Minute is 36, but as mentioned in the article, there is belief one soldier had 38 hits. That is one hit at 300 yards in less than two seconds with a bolt action rifle, including reloading, over iron sights.

The Lee-Enfield only held 10 rounds. So it would require being reloaded during this test. And in 1914, Britain had five divisions of men who could pass the base test of 15 hits per minute.

Oswald shot at a distance of less than 100 yards with a scope. Yeah, he could get off three aimed shots within six seconds and score the hits. Not saying he did, but that yes, he could have done it.

 

[rjd970]

There are no sources still alive.

Sources could mean methods, doesn’t have to be a person.

 

[GroverCleveland]

My fault.

No problem. I knew what you meant, but some reading this might have gone off looking for a Mouser rifle online.

But that does generate a thought: maybe get the Dems and some of their ilk convinced the big danger is from Mouser rifles and they should be banned. It would be pretty funny to watch.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

World War 1 Rifles and the Mad Minute – Kansas WW1

Prior to WWI, British infantrymen were required to pass a test requiring they get off as many rounds as they could of aimed fire within one minute. They passed if they had fifteen hits on a 300 yard target within that minute, or a hit every four seconds. Again, at 300 yards over iron sights. The record number of hits during the Mad Minute is 36, but as mentioned in the article, there is belief one soldier had 38 hits. That is one hit at 300 yards in less than two seconds with a bolt action rifle, including reloading, over iron sights.

The Lee-Enfield only held 10 rounds. So it would require being reloaded during this test. And in 1914, Britain had five divisions of men who could pass the base test of 15 hits per minute.

Oswald shot at a distance of less than 100 yards with a scope. Yeah, he could get off three aimed shots within six seconds and score the hits. Not saying he did, but that yes, he could have done it.

The FBI had to add shims to the scope in order to get it sighted correctly.

 

[GroverCleveland]

The FBI had to add shims to the scope in order to get it sighted correctly.

That may not really matter to a skilled marksman. If he knows his gun and ammo well enough, he can adjust his aim for a gun sighted in at say 300 yards to hit dead on at 80.