Keystone Pipeline - a red line?

#551
#551
You are right. An $8 billion pipeline will create zero jobs. The $400 that landowners will get per 40 foot section of pipe on their land will have zero affect on local economies.

Meanwhile the Cassidy bill just passed the house with full R support and 31 Ds. Weird you guys seem upset at the bipartisanship
 
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#552
#552
VolsNSkinsFan said:
You are right. An $8 billion pipeline will create zero jobs. The $400 that landowners will get per 40 foot section of pipe on their land will have zero affect on local economies.

Meanwhile the Cassidy bill just passed the house with full R support and 31 Ds. Weird you guys seem upset at the bipartisanship
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It's impossible for anyone to say that this will not create jobs. I'm not claiming this position and I am thankful that these companies employ so many citizens in our country. What I am simply saying is if they would come out and say "Hey the best thing that will come out of this is the stock prices for such and such companies in Canada" I have stocks in them and so should you. I would be totally down with their willingness to be honest and open with the public.

I am not okay with the notion that this will provide jobs like other O&G endeavors and that it will lower our gas prices beyond a tiny fraction.

Overall the good probably out weighs the bad. Just don't feed me more BS while calling out our president for doing the same with the healthcare tax.
 
#553
#553
#VFL__ said:
It's impossible for anyone to say that this will not create jobs. I'm not claiming this position and I am thankful that these companies employ so many citizens in our country. What I am simply saying is if they would come out and say "Hey the best thing that will come out of this is the stock prices for such and such companies in Canada" I have stocks in them and so should you. I would be totally down with their willingness to be honest and open with the public.

I am not okay with the notion that this will provide jobs like other O&G endeavors and that it will lower our gas prices beyond a tiny fraction.

Overall the good probably out weighs the bad. Just don't feed me more BS while calling out our president for doing the same with the healthcare tax.
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And here we have the problem. Other than the environmental factors (which are way, way, way overstated) there are zero downsides to this pipeline. Even if the refined product is not sold domestically, it will still keep people in work or create new jobs.

So again, we have a President sitting on this, as I stated some months ago, because he wants to appease the environmental Nazi crowd. No other reason whatsoever.
 
#554
#554
Grand Vol said:
And here we have the problem. Other than the environmental factors (which are way, way, way overstated) there are zero downsides to this pipeline. Even if the refined product is not sold domestically, it will still keep people in work or create new jobs.

So again, we have a President sitting on this, as I stated some months ago, because he wants to appease the environmental Nazi crowd. No other reason whatsoever.
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Yeah, this means nothing. Petroleum is a global commodity, the more product on the global market the lower the price. Plus it offsets to a point some of the volatility in the ME and eastern Europe.
 
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#555
#555
Grand Vol said:
And here we have the problem. Other than the environmental factors (which are way, way, way overstated) there are zero downsides to this pipeline. Even if the refined product is not sold domestically, it will still keep people in work or create new jobs.

So again, we have a President sitting on this, as I stated some months ago, because he wants to appease the environmental Nazi crowd. No other reason whatsoever.
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Agreed. I don't dismiss the environmental factor as easily as you of course. I believe that we have a considerable segment of population that cares about the earth and what our energy consumption does to the land. That's not something to overlook. It also shouldn't keep him from doing anything either.

So in your mind, this push and all they crap we have been hearing for years now is justified over lets say 1,000 full time jobs once it is completed? That to you is more important than let's say addressing gerrymandering, term limits, restructured tax codes that do not punish the rich or the poor, corporate and individual handouts, immigration, and other various government waste? The pipeline to you is a top five priority?

Also I wonder if any illegal aliens will be used in it's construction?
 
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#556
#556
#VFL__ said:
Agreed. I don't dismiss the environmental factor as easily as you of course. I believe that we have a considerable segment of population that cares about the earth and what our energy consumption does to the land. That's not something to overlook. It also shouldn't keep him from doing anything either.

So in your mind, this push and all they crap we have been hearing for years now is justified over lets say 1,000 full time jobs once it is completed? That to you is more important than let's say addressing gerrymandering, term limits, restructured tax codes that do not punish the rich or the poor, corporate and individual handouts, immigration, and other various government waste? The pipeline to you is a top five priority?

Also I wonder if any illegal aliens will be used in it's construction?
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Spills create jobs!
 
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#557
#557
#VFL__ said:
Agreed. I don't dismiss the environmental factor as easily as you of course. I believe that we have a considerable segment of population that cares about the earth and what our energy consumption does to the land. That's not something to overlook. It also shouldn't keep him from doing anything either.

So in your mind, this push and all they crap we have been hearing for years now is justified over lets say 1,000 full time jobs once it is completed? That to you is more important than let's say addressing gerrymandering, term limits, restructured tax codes that do not punish the rich or the poor, corporate and individual handouts, immigration, and other various government waste? The pipeline to you is a top five priority?

Also I wonder if any illegal aliens will be used in it's construction?
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I care about the earth as well. But I also have to realistically look at the fact we cannot do without petroleum products. Whether that's gas in the tank or the plastics they produce.

This was straight up low hanging fruit that could and should have received bipartisan support from Congress and the White House. And you know it.
 
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#558
#558
Grand Vol said:
I care about the earth as well. But I also have to realistically look at the fact we cannot do without petroleum products. Whether that's gas in the tank or the plastics they produce.

This was straight up low hanging fruit that could and should have received bipartisan support from Congress and the White House. And you know it.
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I don't know that. I think this is our government getting involved in something because corporations have lobbied them to do so. If you were to assign a percentage number on who will benefit from this pipeline this most, I do not believe we as individual citizens would be assigned a high percentage number. This to me is a justifiable reason to pour through data and gather as much info as possible. The time to **** or get off the pot has arrived however.
 
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#559
#559
#VFL__ said:
I don't know that. I think this is our government getting involved in something because corporations have lobbied them to do so. If you were to assign a percentage number on who will benefit from this pipeline this most, I do not believe we as individual citizens would be assigned a high percentage number. This to me is a justifiable reason to pour through data and gather as much info as possible. The time to **** or get off the pot has arrived however.
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What's the difference in corporations lobbying and social issue special interest groups doing the same.
 
#562
#562
Grand Vol said:
And here we have the problem. Other than the environmental factors (which are way, way, way overstated) there are zero downsides to this pipeline. Even if the refined product is not sold domestically, it will still keep people in work or create new jobs.

So again, we have a President sitting on this, as I stated some months ago, because he wants to appease the environmental Nazi crowd. No other reason whatsoever.
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I think the jobs issue is questionable because they are temporary. Build it, and it's done. Then all there is is maintenance and day to day operations which I would guess require minimal personnel. And then there would be all the truckers that are now transporting what the rails do not transport being out of this particular type of work. I honestly do not know, but it would be interesting to see some actual data on the subject.

I do think you are correct on the environmentalist angle, which shows to go you how irrational they are. I mean, it is much safer to have a thousand rail cars and trucks moving over the land than a fixed pipeline... amiright?
 
#563
#563
#VFL__ said:
Agreed. I don't dismiss the environmental factor as easily as you of course. I believe that we have a considerable segment of population that cares about the earth and what our energy consumption does to the land. That's not something to overlook. It also shouldn't keep him from doing anything either.
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You are right, but they are totally irrational and naive.
 
#564
#564
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#565
#565
VolsNSkinsFan said:
You are right. An $8 billion pipeline will create zero jobs. The $400 that landowners will get per 40 foot section of pipe on their land will have zero affect on local economies.

Meanwhile the Cassidy bill just passed the house with full R support and 31 Ds. Weird you guys seem upset at the bipartisanship
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Is $10/foot all they'll get? That's ridiculous!
 
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#566
#566
SpaceCoastVol said:
I think the jobs issue is questionable because they are temporary. Build it, and it's done. Then all there is is maintenance and day to day operations which I would guess require minimal personnel.
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It takes thousands of workers to send oil through a pipe. They have to manually pump it through, you know.
 
#567
#567
#VFL__ said:
Yep you're right. I honestly don't even have a problem with this proposal. I have a problem with a party pushing and pulling to get it passed when we have a million other things on our plate. When politicans start taking our issues as seriously as corporations', I won't complain about them trying to get this passed.
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Absolutely right......getting the REDSKINS to change their name, steroid use in baseball, Ferguson, next tee time........
 
#569
#569
82_VOL_83 said:
Absolutely right......getting the REDSKINS to change their name, steroid use in baseball, Ferguson, next tee time........
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I'm not a democrat, so I hope that wasn't meant as a diss towards me? Productive post nonetheless. Dems do what is good for the dems. GOP does what is good for the GOP. A lot of you don't know this or actually I think a lot of people just like to be apart of a team. It's fun to talk trash about the other guys and boast about your guys but frankly neither of them collectively do what is good for you and I. They don't have to, just keep pointing fingers and the American public will chase it's own tail.
 
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#570
#570
VOLatile said:
Is $10/foot all they'll get? That's ridiculous!
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It's farmland. You can buy an acre of it for $1000. Also the land is still useable and the pipeline company will make improvements to your land if you ask in your lease (build a road/fence, etc)
 
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#571
#571
Is it okay to post CNN links instead of Fox News?

Keystone bill dies in the Senate -- for now - CNN.com

The Senate blocked a measure Tuesday that would have authorized construction of the Keystone XL pipeline as Democrats chose their pro-environment base over an old friend -- embattled Louisiana Sen. Mary Landrieu.

The vote could just be a speedbump for the Keystone project, with Republicans ready to try again -- with much better odds of success -- once they take control of the Senate in January.
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#572
#572
“It’s time to make this turn. And there’s no better moment to make this turn than on this pipeline that would bring the filthiest fuel in the planet into circulation,” said Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, a Rhode Island Democrat."
 
#574
#574
theFallGuy said:
“It’s time to make this turn. And there’s no better moment to make this turn than on this pipeline that would bring the filthiest fuel in the planet into circulation,” said Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, a Rhode Island Democrat."
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Tar sands oil is disgustingly bad for the environment. A 17% increase in greenhouse gas emissions, low net energy yield, and it requires massive deforestation of the treeline that is the most effective at removing CO2 from the atmosphere.
 
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#575
#575
VOLatile said:
Tar sands oil is disgustingly bad for the environment. A 17% increase in greenhouse gas emissions, low net energy yield, and it requires massive deforestation of the treeline that is the most effective at removing CO2 from the atmosphere.
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All depends on what they are cracking it into.
 
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