Keystone Pipeline - a red line?

#1,151
#1,151
hog88 said:
Canada isn't subsidizing the oil fields up there making it cheaper than what can be produced domestically. Also Canada doesn't have the refining capability to refine this oil nor the capacity to refine it, we do. Nothing is stopping a Canadian company from constructing a refinery and buying all the oil from the oil sands and making the pipeline useless.

We have steel mills and raw material but since our government doesn't subsidize our steel industry or restrict imports as China does the comparison falls flat.

I'm all for free and FAIR trade.
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Lol at the "fair" trade BS. How does cheap steel hurt us? It doesn't.
 
#1,153
#1,153
Vol8188 said:
Lol at the "fair" trade BS. How does cheap steel hurt us? It doesn't.
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Why should we produce our own oil? The theory of comparative advantage would suggest we should devote our productive capabilities to items where we have an advantage over other countries. Eg. just because we can grow apples CA says don't bother if another country can do it and we could do something else they aren't as capable at.

Perhaps dependence has it's own costs?
 
#1,154
#1,154
hog88 said:
You can ship all the cheap steel you want over here, if no one has a job to buy **** made with steel what do you gain?
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Your lack of understanding here is incredibly sad. Cheaper steel creates countless jobs. Surely you're not liberal enough to believe that taxes are a positive and create a net positive number of jobs.

Tell me, how will cheap steel cause everyone to be unemployed?
 
#1,155
#1,155
volinbham said:
Why should we produce our own oil? The theory of comparative advantage would suggest we should devote our productive capabilities to items where we have an advantage over other countries. Eg. just because we can grow apples CA says don't bother if another country can do it and we could do something else they aren't as capable at.

Perhaps dependence has it's own costs?
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Perhaps we should allow the people to determine their own dependency level. If they decide to purchase foreign products, let them. If they prefer American, so be it.
 
#1,156
#1,156
Vol8188 said:
Perhaps we should allow the people to determine their own dependency level. If they decide to purchase foreign products, let them. If they prefer American, so be it.
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Again, the theory of Comparative Advantage (the basis for much of the notion that freer trade is always good) would suggest our country shouldn't bother with oil production.

Would it be wise policy for this country to become entirely dependent on other countries for oil?
 
#1,157
#1,157
Hog,
Serious question:

If we were to subsidize oil or any other thing that we produce and another country bought it without imposing any tariffs on us,

Do you truly believe the other country would be losing out? Or would we be the ones losing?
 
#1,159
#1,159
volinbham said:
Again, the theory of Comparative Advantage (the basis for much of the notion that freer trade is always good) would suggest our country shouldn't bother with oil production.

Would it be wise policy for this country to become entirely dependent on other countries for oil?
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I understand your theory. The nation shouldn't be involved in oil. Individuals should. And for some individuals, oil production would have a huge comparative advantage compared to other uses of their land. So your question itself is flawed. Each individual should be able to peruse their own interests.
 
#1,160
#1,160
Vol8188 said:
Your lack of understanding here is incredibly sad. Cheaper steel creates countless jobs. Surely you're not liberal enough to believe that taxes are a positive and create a net positive number of jobs.

Tell me, how will cheap steel cause everyone to be unemployed?
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Your lack of economic understanding is obvious.
 
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#1,161
#1,161
LouderVol said:
there is also the cultural impact. I am seeing this a lot like the interstate system and how that ruined a lot of down towns. This will be similar and they have already shown that the cultural study they did was incomplete (without any input from the tribes) and has been ignored in some very important places.

again I am for it, but they (government and companies building it) are making it a very bad thing. Treatment of the locals is unheard of. There is actual racism/oppression going on up there. Honestly if that got violent I would blame the government.
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I don't disagree however, if we do not take full advantage of the Canadian oil sand resources China (who acquired Canadian oil giant Nexen) certainly will and we all are too aware of their overall environmental record. 2015 Nexen experienced a 1.3+ million gallon spill in Northern Alberta
 
#1,165
#1,165
Vol8188 said:
Hog,
Serious question:

If we were to subsidize oil or any other thing that we produce and another country bought it without imposing any tariffs on us,

Do you truly believe the other country would be losing out? Or would we be the ones losing?
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We shouldn't be subsidizing any industry (even agriculture) but we also shouldn't allow our trading partners to provide their exporters unfair advantages either. A big portion of our trade imbalances are self inflicted. We shouldn't handicap our industry with needless regulation and taxes making them noncompetitive on the world market.

You also have to look at industrial capacity as a national security issue. Imagine if during WWII we didn't have the manufacturing infrastructure to support the war effort and was relying on Asian manufacturing. Most likely we would have lost.
 
#1,168
#1,168
hog88 said:
We shouldn't be subsidizing any industry (even agriculture) but we also shouldn't allow our trading partners to provide their exporters unfair advantages either. A big portion of our trade imbalances are self inflicted. We shouldn't handicap our industry with needless regulation and taxes making them noncompetitive on the world market.

You also have to look at industrial capacity as a national security issue. Imagine if during WWII we didn't have the manufacturing infrastructure to support the war effort and was relying on Asian manufacturing. Most likely we would have lost.
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I agree on taxes and regulations.

And all the unfair advantage is, is that they are giving us a product below market value. That's a good thing.

I agree a certain level of manufacturing needs to be maintained. I disagree if you're claiming we are near that threshold
 
#1,170
#1,170
hog88 said:
We shouldn't be subsidizing any industry (even agriculture) but we also shouldn't allow our trading partners to provide their exporters unfair advantages either. A big portion of our trade imbalances are self inflicted. We shouldn't handicap our industry with needless regulation and taxes making them noncompetitive on the world market.

You also have to look at industrial capacity as a national security issue. Imagine if during WWII we didn't have the manufacturing infrastructure to support the war effort and was relying on Asian manufacturing. Most likely we would have lost.
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We should suspend all taxes regulations and trade agreements and go back to the feudal system. :)
 
#1,172
#1,172
What is the effect of the substantially lower oil prices on the KSP? Is it even feasible or cost-efficient to do it now?
 
#1,174
#1,174
Vol8188 said:
Your lack of understanding here is incredibly sad. Cheaper steel creates countless jobs. Surely you're not liberal enough to believe that taxes are a positive and create a net positive number of jobs.

Tell me, how will cheap steel cause everyone to be unemployed?
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When you have cheap steel or any metals like aluminum, imported to the US cheaper than we can make it, it puts US suppliers out of business.

Once our friendly, cheap suppliers like communist China have put all of their American competition out of business they are free to raise prices at will. We are beholden to them and have no recourse.

The cost of a new steel or aluminum smelter is in the billions, but we shut down and bulldozed the ones we had.

You need to look at the big picture.
 
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