Keystone Pipeline - a red line?

[Grand Vol]

if you did any research you would know they don't care about some ancient campsite. the government thinks they do, but they don't. I don't understand it fully but it sounds like these people are still tied to their land, not like the transplants in Oklahoma. They still use the land, keep their nomadic traditions. Not all natives are happy to be on the government teat. These are active use places. which is why it is a sham the government didn't talk to the tribes.

lol at transplants.

Perhaps you should come out to Oklahoma and see what you are missing.

What's your real beef with this?

 

[Obsessed]

should be bringing? they are bringing it. It gets no media attention but there are people out there peacefully protesting every day.

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/18082016/native-americans-sioux-tribe-protest-north-dakota-access-bakken-oil-pipeline-fossil-fuels

if you did any research you would know they don't care about some ancient campsite. the government thinks they do, but they don't. I don't understand it fully but it sounds like these people are still tied to their land, not like the transplants in Oklahoma. They still use the land, keep their nomadic traditions. Not all natives are happy to be on the government teat. These are active use places. which is why it is a sham the government didn't talk to the tribes.

The Choctaw and Cherokee are not the same as they once were.

Good people mind you, but not the same.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Thus the issue with tariffs. You make everything more expensive to benefit a very small few.

Define few. Then define very small few.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

This is how much sense Trump's economic policies make:

No, that's just another of your idiotic oversimplifications.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I agree. My question is why are we stuck in this age of petroleum?

Don't we have the resources and money to develope things that run on cheaper/alternative sources?

Yet another area where Obama showed his incompetence. we never get anywhere by the government throwing money at a problem where there is no competition. Think Solyndra versus the lunar landing program. Another way to think of it is to ask yourself if you pay your contractor up front, in full to build a house. If one of these administrations foster competition to produce a car that runs on peppercorns or cat urine and promise a $50 billion prize, it will happen. As long as they can stay alive long enough to collect because that is the last thing the arabs want.

 

[Vol8188]

Define few. Then define very small few.

The very few people who refine steel for a living. Well under 1% of the population. We then force the 99% to pay for it. Tariffs are a welfare program.

The other 99% of the nation benefits from cheaper steel

 

[sammyhagar]

It's hilarious that TRUMP wants to build all of the pipeline material within the United States, yet not too long ago, due to trade laws, India was cornered by the WTO for trying to build their own solar materials in-house, which benefited local producers within India and reduced imports (particularly from the United States). Ultimately, the United States won that dispute, because how dare India try to be independent in their manufacturing!

So, it must be endlessly frustrating for a country to watch the United States crack down on something like India building solar materials in-house, only to see, a couple years later, the United States clamoring to build their own stuff in-house, paying no attention to trade laws. Of course, we'll see if Trump actually gets away with it, but damn it America is such a contradiction.

 

[golfballs]

It's hilarious that TRUMP wants to build all of the pipeline material within the United States, yet not too long ago, due to trade laws, India was cornered by the WTO for trying to build their own solar materials in-house, which benefited local producers within India and reduced imports (particularly from the United States). Ultimately, the United States won that dispute, because how dare India try to be independent in their manufacturing!

So, it must be endlessly frustrating for a country to watch the United States crack down on something like India building solar materials in-house, only to see, a couple years later, the United States clamoring to build their own stuff in-house, paying no attention to trade laws. Of course, we'll see if Trump actually gets away with it, but damn it America is such a contradiction.

In case you haven't been paying attention

 

[sammyhagar]

In case you haven't been paying attention

Are you able to see with that wool covering your eyes?

 

[golfballs]

Are you able to see with that wool covering your eyes?

By who? You? Because what you just described is that India should be mad because we want to use American-made pipes

 

[sammyhagar]

By who? You? Because what you just described is that India should be mad because we want to use American-made pipes

Did you even read my post?

 

[golfballs]

Did you even read my post?

I don't think you read your own posts

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

The very few people who refine steel for a living. Well under 1% of the population. We then force the 99% to pay for it. Tariffs are a welfare program.

The other 99% of the nation benefits from cheaper steel

Right. Continue. I'll help you a little. So those people are now out of work because they cannot compete. So are the miners, well maybe not because the Chinese will buy their steel ore. Oh wait a minute. Maybe not because they have to produce it cheaper than the slave labor in North Korea. So they are out of work. So who is going to buy the products sold in WalMart in podunk Pennsylvania now? Nobody. So how are those people going to feed their families?

Again in your typical idiotic academic simplification you forget about all of those other people affected by the loss of an industry in small town America. It wasn't lost on them. That is why your girl lost the general.

 

[LouderVol]

lol at transplants.

Perhaps you should come out to Oklahoma and see what you are missing.

What's your real beef with this?

I consider the natives to be Americans. This type of treatment to my fellow Americans pisses me the **** off. and frankly I don't see how more people aren't worried by this.

 

[hog88]

I consider the natives to be Americans. This type of treatment to my fellow Americans pisses me the **** off. and frankly I don't see how more people aren't worried by this.

If they weren't "Native" Americans nobody would care.

I hate that term anyway, WTF is a Native American? How many generations of family have to be born here to be "Native"?

 

[LouderVol]

Maybe you can be a volnation first, tell us exact what subsidies big oil gets?

tax breaks. I will dismiss the first one. the rest that are targeted for oil.

Forbes Welcome

Forbes Welcome

both articles cover most of the same. even while defending them it covers how they are oil specific.

 

[LouderVol]

If they weren't "Native" Americans nobody would care.

I hate that term anyway, WTF is a Native American? How many generations of family have to be born here to be "Native"?

I agree. any hypen American label is dumb. which is why I am pissed off for them. because I don't really see it as "them" but "us". essentially they are fighting to make sure they don't turn into Flint Michigan with the added side of cultural history.

 

[hog88]

tax breaks. I will dismiss the first one. the rest that are targeted for oil.

Forbes Welcome

Forbes Welcome

both articles cover most of the same. even while defending them it covers how they are oil specific.

So the only "subsidies" that really aren't tax write offs available to other corporations are the strategic reserve, the tax exemption for off road fuel and the Low income home heating program.

I am now completely offended.

 

[Vol8188]

Right. Continue. I'll help you a little. So those people are now out of work because they cannot compete. So are the miners, well maybe not because the Chinese will buy their steel ore. Oh wait a minute. Maybe not because they have to produce it cheaper than the slave labor in North Korea. So they are out of work. So who is going to buy the products sold in WalMart in podunk Pennsylvania now? Nobody. So how are those people going to feed their families?

Again in your typical idiotic academic simplification you forget about all of those other people affected by the loss of an industry in small town America. It wasn't lost on them. That is why your girl lost the general.

So you're now up to what a full 1% of the population? Meanwhile the other 99% save money which will be used to create new jobs. Especially construction jobs using that steel.

 

[hog88]

I agree. any hypen American label is dumb. which is why I am pissed off for them. because I don't really see it as "them" but "us". essentially they are fighting to make sure they don't turn into Flint Michigan with the added side of cultural history.

That's not why they are fighting. If their financial backers pulled out this protest would be over in days.

 

[Orangedogsrule]

Based on your response, you don't understand "standard of living". If we can buy cheaper goods, our standard of living increases.

The ability to make things cheaper (less time and effort) is what creates wealth.

Unless the quality of the goods is no longer heirloom but cheap throw-a-way designed to require purchase after purchase of similar products which in fact drains wealth.

 

[Vol8188]

Unless the quality of the goods is no longer heirloom but cheap throw-a-way designed to require purchase after purchase of similar products which in fact drains wealth.

How does that drain wealth?

 

[KentheOrange]

Exactly, how about a long term energy policy that has contingencies.

Dang Hog, that sounds familiar.

"The DOE, activated on Oct. 1, 1977, provided the framework for a comprehensive national energy plan by coordinating federal energy functions. The new Department was responsible for long-term, high-risk research and development of energy technology, federal power marketing, energy conservation, energy regulatory programs, a central energy data collection and analysis program, and nuclear weapons research, development and production."

How's that working for you so far?

 

[VolStrom]

How does that drain wealth?

It drains wealth by throwing away a product in years instead of decades. It forces people to buy things that used to last much longer over and over again and for a marginally lower cost.

Which would you rather buy: an appliance that lasts 5 years for $500 or one that lasts 15 years and costs $800?

 

[Vol8188]

It drains wealth by throwing away a product in years instead of decades. It forces people to buy things that used to last much longer over and over again and for a marginally lower cost.

Which would you rather buy: an appliance that lasts 5 years for $500 or one that lasts 15 years and costs $800?

Depends on what I can earn on that extra 300 over 5 years. Let's ignore the fact that you're falsely assuming all imported products are of lower quality, but:

What right do you have to prevent me from buying the 500 dollar appliance? How do you that spending more money now is in my best interest? Am I not the better person to make that decision? Perhaps that 300 dollars saved can be used for something more important at the time.