Keystone Pipeline - a red line?

[VolStrom]

Depends on what I can earn on that extra 300 over 5 years. Let's ignore the fact that you're falsely assuming all imported products are of lower quality, but:

What right do you have to prevent me from buying the 500 dollar appliance? How do you that spending more money now is in my best interest? Am I not the better person to make that decision? Perhaps that 300 dollars saved can be used for something more important at the time.

I don't have any problem letting you spend your money any way you want to spend it. I welcome the opportunity to allow you to waste your money any way you want.

What I have a problem with is the undercutting that foreign governments do to make their products so cheap and when you add to that our trade policies that say "sure bring it in tax free", our producers are at a disadvantage.

You spend your money how you want. I'll tell you what though, our trade deficit is so huge that it's not sustainable.

 

[Vol8188]

I don't have any problem letting you spend your money any way you want to spend it. I welcome the opportunity to allow you to waste your money any way you want.

What I have a problem with is the undercutting that foreign governments do to make their products so cheap and when you add to that our trade policies that say "sure bring it in tax free", our producers are at a disadvantage.

You spend your money how you want. I'll tell you what though, our trade deficit is so huge that it's not sustainable.

How's a trade deficit not sustainable? And if you're supporting tariffs, you're 100% telling me how to spend my money. All foreign countries are doing is giving us a discount. It does not hurt us. It only helps us.

 

[VolStrom]

How's a trade deficit not sustainable? And if you're supporting tariffs, you're 100% telling me how to spend my money. All foreign countries are doing is giving us a discount. It does not hurt us. It only helps us.

The foreign countries are slowly choking us to death.

Imagine your USA of the future where we don't manufacture anything, we all work for service companies like McDonalds or Taco bell. How do you think your life will be? We trade what dollars we have left between us and send a little bit of those dollars to China to buy an appliance further reducing those dollars.

That may be an exaggeration, but it seems to me that's the world you want.

 

[Vol8188]

The foreign countries are slowly choking us to death.

Imagine your USA of the future where we don't manufacture anything, we all work for service companies like McDonalds or Taco bell. How do you think your life will be? We trade what dollars we have left between us and send a little bit of those dollars to China to buy an appliance further reducing those dollars.

That may be an exaggeration, but it seems to me that's the world you want.

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how wealth is created. If they can make the product cheaper than we can, we gain wealth from purchasing it.

 

[VolStrom]

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how wealth is created. If they can make the product cheaper than we can, we gain wealth from purchasing it.

Sending dollars out of the US does not create wealth in the US. Those dollars come out of someones pocket.

 

[Vol8188]

Sending dollars out of the US does not create wealth in the US. Those dollars come out of someones pocket.

If they weren't gaining something by spending those dollars, they'd keep their money.

 

[LouderVol]

So the only "subsidies" that really aren't tax write offs available to other corporations are the strategic reserve, the tax exemption for off road fuel and the Low income home heating program.

I am now completely offended.

that's exactly what I said.

you asked for subsidies, I gave you subsidies. just because they are "good" ones doesn't make them not a subsidy.

 

[LouderVol]

Depends on what I can earn on that extra 300 over 5 years. Let's ignore the fact that you're falsely assuming all imported products are of lower quality, but:

What right do you have to prevent me from buying the 500 dollar appliance? How do you that spending more money now is in my best interest? Am I not the better person to make that decision? Perhaps that 300 dollars saved can be used for something more important at the time.

what right do you have to that 500 dollar appliance? sounds like if that 300 is so important you shouldn't be getting the appliance anyway.

 

[LouderVol]

How's a trade deficit not sustainable? And if you're supporting tariffs, you're 100% telling me how to spend my money. All foreign countries are doing is giving us a discount. It does not hurt us. It only helps us.

no you can still buy the foreign goods you just have to pay more. your argument in reverse makes no sense.

with no tariffs you're 100% telling me how to spend my money.

False, you just have to spend more money to get what you want.

 

[hog88]

that's exactly what I said.

you asked for subsidies, I gave you subsidies. just because they are "good" ones doesn't make them not a subsidy.

I guess welfare should be considered a subsidy for the housing industry.

 

[LouderVol]

ok

 

[Biopsyman]

I guess I finally can cancel my car with the windmill on the back that Obama wanted me to buy

 

[KentheOrange]

tax breaks. I will dismiss the first one. the rest that are targeted for oil.

Forbes Welcome

Forbes Welcome

both articles cover most of the same. even while defending them it covers how they are oil specific.

Hog wasn't specific enough with his question. Tell us what subsidies big oil gets that aren't available to other companies.

 

[Vol8188]

what right do you have to that 500 dollar appliance? sounds like if that 300 is so important you shouldn't be getting the appliance anyway.

lol are you serious? If a person is willing to sell it for 500 I have a right to freely contract with that person. Your rights are not limited by the bill of rights.

There's plenty of people who it would be in there best interest to purchase a 500 dollar appliance (especially those going to laundry mats), but who may not be able to afford 800.

 

[Vol8188]

no you can still buy the foreign goods you just have to pay more. your argument in reverse makes no sense.

with no tariffs you're 100% telling me how to spend my money.

False, you just have to spend more money to get what you want.

Because that's not my argument in reverse. My argument would be that with 0% tariffs, you're not telling me how to spend my money.

With tariffs you're 100% attempting to influence how I spend my money. To deny that would be a blatant lie.

 

[VolStrom]

Because that's not my argument in reverse. My argument would be that with 0% tariffs, you're not telling me how to spend my money.

With tariffs you're 100% attempting to influence how I spend my money. To deny that would be a blatant lie.

When the only money you have is a McDonalds job because the appliance you want to buy was built by the Chinese and that's all you can afford. You deserve what you get.

 

[Vol8188]

When the only money you have is a McDonalds job because the appliance you want to buy was built by the Chinese and that's all you can afford. You deserve what you get.

You're assuming everyone will buy this product over the more expensive American product even though you claim its of better quality. You're also assuming none of the money saved will go into creating jobs.

 

[VolStrom]

You're assuming everyone will buy this product over the more expensive American product even though you claim its of better quality. You're also assuming none of the money saved will go into creating jobs.

Let me ask you something. Why do you think Trump got elected? Do you think the middle class is doing great and they are so happy that they are willing to watch their jobs vacate the US and go to Mexico and China?
Someday I hope you see what this country used to be and where it has been headed for the last few decades.
We are headed for 2 classes, the haves and have nots. we've been there before and we don't want to go back.

 

[Vol8188]

Let me ask you something. Why do you think Trump got elected? Do you think the middle class is doing great and they are so happy that they are willing to watch their jobs vacate the US and go to Mexico and China?
Someday I hope you see what this country used to be and where it has been headed for the last few decades.
We are headed for 2 classes, the haves and have nots. we've been there before and we don't want to go back.

Government got us into this mess. You really believe more government is what we need?

 

[VolStrom]

Government got us into this mess. You really believe more government is what we need?

No I don't. I want government to undo what they did to us.

 

[LouderVol]

lol are you serious? If a person is willing to sell it for 500 I have a right to freely contract with that person. Your rights are not limited by the bill of rights.

There's plenty of people who it would be in there best interest to purchase a 500 dollar appliance (especially those going to laundry mats), but who may not be able to afford 800.

Again if that 500 breaks while a 800 still works that person who can't afford the extra three is out 500 more.

Fewer bigger bites or more small ones? May be preference, but there is no added value to something being cheaper and being more available.

 

[LouderVol]

Because that's not my argument in reverse. My argument would be that with 0% tariffs, you're not telling me how to spend my money.

With tariffs you're 100% attempting to influence how I spend my money. To deny that would be a blatant lie.

How you spend it, absolutely not. Because a washing machine is more expensive does not force you to buy it. It's not something you had that was taken away. With tariffs you still have the same choices you had before, some are more expensive now. Just like now without tariffs I have options that are more expensive if I want American. And taking a choice away would not be hurting you. Unless you believe everytime you make a decision and buy something you are inherently limiting yourself by no longer being able to make that choice.

Tariff or no the same options are out there. Prices go up or down as they will. If the cheap option goes from 500 to 550 you haven't been harmed and you have lost nothing by the cost going up. Just like if I choose the more expensive option I have not cost myself the cheap option.

 

[LouderVol]

You're assuming everyone will buy this product over the more expensive American product even though you claim its of better quality. You're also assuming none of the money saved will go into creating jobs.

Really, the person worried about 300 dollars saving money is going to create jobs? Especially if they are buying cheap crap from over "there"

 

[Vol8188]

No I don't. I want government to undo what they did to us.

Tariffs and border walls are both more government. Neither represent freedom.

 

[Vol8188]

Again if that 500 breaks while a 800 still works that person who can't afford the extra three is out 500 more.

Fewer bigger bites or more small ones? May be preference, but there is no added value to something being cheaper and being more available.

If these more expensive American goods are of such great quality, why do you need to protect them through tariffs?